I try to generally stick to certain scales/modes in a particular song, but i also stray quite a bit from the set "rules". I play guitar and when improvising a solo you try to stick to a certain scale, but change SOME of the notes. When the listener hears a note that doesn't fit the scale, and then hears another note that does fit the scale it gives the listener a kind of "relief", ie it sounds good. I hope that made sense.

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What I listen to

quote:

As much as people might try to tell you otherwise, there are standards for every genre of music, that if you follow you will create a standard piece of music for that genre (look at DnB for example - yeah sounds great but its all exactly the same stuff, just produced differently)

wha? where did you hear this from? i dont think you have heard much dnb if you think it all sounds the same. its one of the most varied and freeform styles of modern music.

jp8000 lover. do NOT use chord calculators because you will come to rely on them for finding out chords. you can figure out how to make chords minor/major/suspended etc etc and there are a few tutorials on the net which will show you how to do it.

moded scales are variations on normal 7 note scales. ill cut to the chase because you should memorize these and improvise around them. you dont need to start them in C. i just do this so you can visualize the scale as an ascending (or descending) sequence of notes spanning an octave.

dorian goes C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb. VNV nation improvise around this scale on their track genesis.

phrygian goes C, C#, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb. i cant remember off the top of my head where this one gets used but i have heard it turn up ALOT in trance.

lydian goes C, D, E, F#, G, A, B. yep its practically the same as a regular 7 note scale rooted in C except for the sharpened F. tiesto uses this scale in urban train and in his remix of silence. mauro picotto uses this for the pads in lizard and iguana. that sharpened F/G if you hit it at the top of a 3 step movement from C gives you that classic melancholic lift that so many trance tunes have.

just bang this in the piano roll on your favourite strings patch and you will know exactly what i mean. have the first 2 intervals (intervals are chords consisting of only 2 notes) sustain for 1 bar and the last interval sustain for 2 bars (so you fill 4 bars and you can loop it around in your tune).

C, D, E on C4 and at the same time
E, F#, G on C6

you will have heard that movement in half the trance oriented tunes under the sun. sometimes its cleverly disguised with extra 6th, 7th or 11th notes (adding more notes to the chord to make it sound thicker and more expressive but it can muddy the purity of the sound which is why mauro picotto's simple pad riffs sounded so huuuge and epic)

the basic idea is to use chords ascending or descending part of the way along one of these scales (there are more but these are the most frequently used in euphoric type trance i feel). also experiment with the sharpened and flattened note. have a 3 step pattern going on C4 on a decent pad patch, descending. say, F, Eb, C#. go up two octaves and plink an ascending pattern down. say G, Ab, Bb. you have a melancholic pad that is based around a phrygian mode. it doesnt sound complete so flesh it out. try this. you are spanning 2 octaves so lets fill out that middle octave starting on C5. try F, G, Ab. sounds better.

just experiment like this. you can get tonnes of combinations plus you will see some patterns and progressions which you have heard literally thousands of artists using.

Last edited by Derivative on Nov-14-2004 at 01:06

Thank you guys for that wealth of information. Really appreciate it!!

The links are great =) I now know what a chord is And the example songs were cool and really helpful. Thanks again!

Thanks all for your information.

Using the C D E E and E F# G G sequence,
i've made this little demo...

I use a Clavia Nord Lead 3, and the Bren-F bass drum, and percussion sounds.

This is my first little trance music...

http://www.eletronz.com/[_eletronz_..._first_beat.mp3

Thanks,

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Abraços/Regards,

Luiz Menezes Jr.
Campinas/SP - Brazil
Eletronz Project
http://www.eletronz.com

quote:

Originally posted by JP8000Lover The best way to get "trance" chords is to study several tunes you like and see where they they go and why.

I agree, completely. If you're keen on learning any style of music, one of the best things you can do is take a song you love, listen to it carefully and try to replicate it.

Now obviously I'm not saying you should copy other's music when making your own tunes; however training your ear to pick out all the layers, and working out that if a tune changes what that change means - (was it a whole chord change, did just some of the notes change etc.) - is an incredibly powerful way to learn about the music. Training your ear like this is essential.

Definitely, learn a bit of music theory to get a framework in which to think. Try to work out yourself what chords + notes + rhythms are used in a particular tune. Look at midi files of the tune if you get stuck. But don't give up until you can hear a trance tune and know the chords are what is changing, when, and why.

People talk a lot about the actual key a tune is in ( is it in A, C, E flat or whatever ), but music is all relative - once a song has established the key, then the rest of the song is all about how you change away from and back to that key. When training your ear, think about the intervals more than the actual notes; a song that starts in A minor and changes to F major is the same as a song going from E flat minor and changing to B major. You can see this if you have any midis in your sequencer and use the transpose key function.

I hope that helps, and all the best with your learning mate!!

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Monsoon - Astrosurf

Yes,

All you have to do is to choose your key, and change the chords based on the scale sequence...

I know music theory, but until now i have just make pop/rock music, but i've listened to eletronic music all my life...

Eletronic music has diferent chords sequence, but now i'm looking to get "the way".

You can check my pop/rock band at: http://www.majortom.cjb.net

Thanks,

___________________
Abraços/Regards,

Luiz Menezes Jr.
Campinas/SP - Brazil
Eletronz Project
http://www.eletronz.com

quote:

Originally posted by pho mo People talk a lot about the actual key a tune is in ( is it in A, C, E flat or whatever ), but music is all relative - once a song has established the key, then the rest of the song is all about how you change away from and back to that key. When training your ear, think about the intervals more than the actual notes; a song that starts in A minor and changes to F major is the same as a song going from E flat minor and changing to B major. You can see this if you have any midis in your sequencer and use the transpose key function.

That isn't quite true. In fact, the human ear hears different frequencies in a different way. For example, 440Hz is an A, 220Hz is the A an octave below that and 110Hz even one octave lower. Now think about how you perceive a bass that centers around 110Hz, versus one at, say, 155Hz (which is approximately an E above that 110Hz A). The sound is quite different, even when using the same synth patch! To get the most out of your sounds, you have to take in account at what frequency you play them. And that is the reason why I hardly use C minor any more, for example - I've noticed that my favourite basses sound much better at D# or F than at C, and so I choose one of the cooler notes for the most important parts.

The relationships of the frequencies might not change if you change the keys, but since the absolute frequencies do change, it is NOT irrelevant what key you play your song in.

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Here's my latest: rolling tech house and laid-back progressive trance

http://soundcloud.com/wayfu



Chronology – a wayfinder discography in progress. Roughly sorted by date of creation.

Really good point mate, I absolutely agree Emotions are certainly affected differently by what key a song is in. Once you've got basic music theory down, this is a very important point to think about.

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Monsoon - Astrosurf

hey guys,how i can establish a key in fruity? is it about setting all my samples to for example A (for root note)?

to answer your question i would stick the major and minor chords

for example ceg egb etc then add your top notes your variations your chord progression etc ,what works for me is i change and alter the notes so you have movement ,and flow but again this could be a melody that sounds good to you for the top.

regardless of what key you're in, the chord progression should be VI VII I, or some variant
start listening for it, it pops up a lot more than you probably realize, its an incredibly powerful progression

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http://www.youtube.com/mezzir

quote:

Originally posted by mezzir regardless of what key you're in, the chord progression should be VI VII I, or some variant start listening for it, it pops up a lot more than you probably realize, its an incredibly powerful progression

this is the worst advice in this thread.

___________________
Here's my latest: rolling tech house and laid-back progressive trance

http://soundcloud.com/wayfu



Chronology – a wayfinder discography in progress. Roughly sorted by date of creation.