quote:

Originally posted by .montecarlo. They should just raise taxes on cigarettes and put the money into Health Care.

We just passed that in Oklahoma....I think the tax is 4 cents per cigarette.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 so i take it you also think that people who smoke and get lung cnacer shouldnt be treated either. What about someone who speeds and crashes there car, should they just be left to die on the side of the road?

wtf are you talking about?

i'm tired of people taking shit out of context and posing questions that have nothing to do with anything.

the loser that set himself on fire was basically in the act of comitting self-imposed imminent suicide. that's much different than smoking/lung cancer, and/or chosing to drive a car.

key words:

self-imposed imminent suicide



>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by JM wtf are you talking about? i'm tired of people taking shit out of context and posing questions that have nothing to do with anything. the loser that set himself on fire was basically in the act of comitting self-imposed imminent suicide. that's much different than smoking/lung cancer, and/or chosing to drive a car. key words: self-imposed imminent suicide >JM<

Hmmmm yeah I agree

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quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 probaly because we all harm each other in a different way or another,drink,drugs,food etc etc. if your to say "smokers should be treated last because they borught it on themselves", you are going down a very dodgey road, you could nearly nit pick every sickness as being caused by the person. i.e heart problems=bad eating. It would be a vicous circle.

Not really.
Lung Cancer from years of smoking doesn't take much diagnosis...

Bringing back personal responsibility as opposed to government support (ie.taxpayer support) is what is needed.
There's just not enough accountability in people anymore...

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Not really. Lung Cancer from years of smoking doesn't take much diagnosis...

Then how can you explain those that die at the age of 91 yet smoked a pack every day of their life?

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Then how can you explain those that die at the age of 91 yet smoked a pack every day of their life?

Good point... regardless of what it says on the warning label, the relationship between smoking and lung cancer is one of association; not causation.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Then how can you explain those that die at the age of 91 yet smoked a pack every day of their life?

True; I mean...look at George Burns and how old he got.

Maybe some people just won't die? lol
(I know, that's bad...I liked George too)

But there's no denying that they are the exception and not the rule.

But getting back to the human torch...

This guy obviously has a few screws loose.
What good can he do now in the state he's in now as opposed to what he could have done.
That person was without hope and thought selfishness was his only escape, dispite what statement he was trying to make.
The fact that he's Arabic has no other connotation to me other than he was indeed a sick man...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by JM This guy should've died, and too bad he didn't - yet. Anybody stupid enough to set themselves on fire doesn't deserve tax dollars to pay for his hospital bills. >JM<

Why do you assume tax dollars are paying for it? After all, we are in one of the few countries with private healthcare.

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quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher

About three decades too late. George Lincoln Rockwell and American Nazi Party used to pass out gasoline and matches during anti-war demonstrations in D.C. back in the 'Nam era when buddhists were firing themselves up over there.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by auujay Why do you assume tax dollars are paying for it? After all, we are in one of the few countries with private healthcare.

Who knows if it is tax dollars but someone has to pay for it. Most likely if you are willing to burn yourself and commit suicide you don't have health coverage. Our country will treat the fool anyways and someone will get stuck with the outrageous medical bills.

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quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil this is America, we should have let him have his freedom of expression and let himself burn!

Yeah, I was thinking of the freedom in Europe vs freedom in the US thread when I read this. Maybe he was stopped because he carried out his suicide attempt in public view - others might suffer severe physical problems for witnessing it.

quote:

Originally posted by .montecarlo. Good point... regardless of what it says on the warning label, the relationship between smoking and lung cancer is one of association; not causation.

I think that you have misunderstood what a causal relationship is. A causal relationship does not have to be "if A then definately B" (in fact I would contest the existence of such relationships. A causal relationship would be "if we fix A then the probability of B changes". And data does support that such a relationship between smoking and lung cancer exists. The only other explanation (and the one the tobacco industry insists that we must not rule out) is that there is some unknown third factor which has a causal impact on both your smoking habits and your lung cancer resistance - something like a gene which leaves you susceptible to lung cancer *and* triggers a irresistable urge to smoke.

Last edited by trancaholic on Nov-16-2004 at 07:22

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I think that you have misunderstood what a causal relationship is. A causal relationship does not have to be "if A then definately B" (in fact I would contest the existence of such relationships. A causal relationship would be "if A then the probability of B changes". And data does support that such a relationship between smoking and lung cancer exists. The only other explanation (and the one the tobacco industry insists that we must not rule out) is that there is some unknown third factor which has a causal impact on both your smoking habits and your lung cancer resistance - something like a gene which leaves you susceptible to lung cancer *and* triggers a irresistable urge to smoke.

Well, it depends on what criteria you're using to establish a causal relationship. Admittedly i'm more familiar with a general framework than with specific medical arguments.

quote:

Method of Agreement: If a specific antecedent circumstance is found to be present on every occasion on which a phenomenon occurs, it may be inferred to be the cause of that phenomenon. Method of Difference: If an antecedent circumstance is present only on those occasions when a phenomenon occurs, it may be inferred to be the cause of that phenomenon. Joint Method of Agreement and Difference: If an antecedent circumstance is invariably present when, but only when, a phenomenon occurs, it may be inferred to be the cause of that phenomenon. Method of Residues: If portions of a complex phenomenon can be explained by reference to parts of a complex antecedent circumstance, whatever remains of that circumstance may be inferred to be the cause of the remainder that phenomenon. Method of Concomitant Variation: If an antecedent circumstance is observed to change proportionally with the occurrence of a phenomenon, it is probably the cause of that phenomenon. www.philosophypages.com