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| quote: | Originally posted by tu_face
that for one is bullshit, but i am not about to sit and argue about the birmingham bombings, and manchester for that matter, all carried out by the IRA on innocent people doing their shopping. that stuff is all in the past. |
There was nothing illegitimate about the Manchester bombing (I assume you're referring to 1996) from an Irish republican point of view, it's economic guerrilla warfare and, as the name suggests, the aim of such actions was to do damage to the British economy; the likes of which it did (e.g. Canary Wharf resulted in lack of investment in London, companies pulling out, hundreds of millions of pounds of damage to buildings, etc.) Had there been a campaign in England like there was in Ireland for the 25-30 years the British economy would have been destroyed. Things like no-warning pub bombings killing civilians are inexcusable, however, in the case of pub bombings in England in the 70s the aim was not to kill civilians, but British military personnel. Unfortunately a lot of innocent people got killed. I can think of a handful of incidents of people who were most likely members of the IRA carrying out illegitimate attacks, literally two or three (out of the thousands of attacks they carried out)
It's hard to see this current deal working in the long-term. All previous deals which have tried to solve the problem (in 1801, 1921, 1973, 1985) have failed because, in my opinion, they ignored the root cause of political violence in Ireland, which is British interference in Ireland. Erradicate that and the problem will be on its way to being solved, for when the British go they won't be coming back, and any attempt to form and independent "Ulster" won't work due to it's small size (it would be less than half the current size of the 6 counties). The Good Friday Agreement is a sectarian solution to a sectarian problem, which might sound rational enough, but I think it's flawed in that it institutionalises sectarianism (future of 6 counties is based on sectarian headcount). The agreement focuses on what divides the people, and not something that will bring them together. If the agreement is a "stepping stone" to a united Ireland, it'll leave unionists completely alienated in an Ireland without British influence. Personally I hope it fails: We've had some form of British rule since 1169, and more recently we've had exclusive unionist rule for 50 years, which didn't work; direct rule from London for 25 years, which didn't work; so-called power-sharing (I say so-called because in reality power lies in London, those with posts at Stormont have irrelevant token roles and no real administrative power), which has collapsed five times in the last five years. The only alternative that hasn't been tried is the one which will lead to a permanent peace - Brits out.
| quote: | Originally posted by UglyDave
you think the loyalists who've settled there for fuck knows how many years will allow this? if it does happen, a lot more terrorist groups will form trying to get their 6 counties back as part of the UK. |
Well since 1921 their central (and sole) argument has been that they are a "majority" and the majority rules. They've held onto this for 83 years and when they actually become the "minority" they have nothing to held on to, and no legitimate claim to go against the wishes of the majority wihin the 6 counties.
My argument would of course be that they are a minority as it is. Going back a bit, in 1918 the people of Ireland returned a majority (73/105) of republican candidates in the general election who fought their campaign solely on a republican ticket. At the time a Sinn Féin activist remarked that the election was "an election for Ireland's freedom", and the people of Ireland opted to set up and independent state through who they returned. The result was ignored by the British and they coerced partition (i.e. the undemocratic process of gerrymandering) on the representatives of Dáil Éireann under threat of an immediate and terrible war. The partition of Ireland (and the creation of the 6 and 26 county states) was evidently grossly undemocratic. The so-called democratic process in the six counties today is fundamentally flawed in that the state came about through a process contrary to democracy (in a time of democracy), hence the legitimacy of republican militancy.
An amazing transformation for the PIRA, from being the most efficient guerrilla force in the world to becoming part of the eatablishment they fought for 25 years to destroy. If this deal plays out like it seems it will, the provos will have been beaten and the British will have won. The conflict will be postponed and prolonged as a permanent peace depends on ending British rule, not updating it. Another thing that really gets to some people in the Movement is Gerry Adams' denial that he was in the IRA. He seems to be ashamed of his past, a past which many of his former comrades are extremely proud. I know that people I know who were in the IRA at the same time as him are disgusted with him. It has let to people leaving his party.
"...the British Government has no right in Ireland, never had any right in Ireland, and never can have any right in Ireland..." - JAMES CONNOLLY,
Commandant-General, Dublin Division,
Army of the Irish Republic
9th May 1916
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"Níl saoirse gan saoirse lucht oibre."
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