i would hope vinyl wasnt pressed from a cd source... i would hope itd be pressed from the highest quality format availble and not from a cd...

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i made a short test..

original sample (ripped from cd)

converted sample (MP3 128kbit)

and now i reversed the mp3-file and played it in sync with the original, so that i'll only hear the difference.

and that's the result

you can see, that there are a lot of frequencies affected but like mentioned before the most frequencies are in the upper range.

Hi,

Great test, you can clearly hear the difference, but that's normal if you only use 128kbps. Perhaps you could do the same test with a 192kbps mp3 and perhaps also higher. Some say 192kbps sounds as good as CD, but I have my doubts, especially regarding high frequencies.

By the way, could you please explain the graphic, like what do the yellow and orange line mean? Also, your graphic seems to go only to 16khz so difficult to see what happens beyond that.

Last question: what's the name of that track and from which (compilation?) album did you take the sample. Sounds great, always looking for great new tunes!

Last edited by Dance123 on Dec-29-2004 at 00:37

quote:

Originally posted by Dance123 Last question: what's the name of that track and from which (compilation?) album did you take the sample. Sounds great, always looking for great new tunes!

Anjunabeats Volume Two
Smith & Pledger - Forever (Aspekt Remix)

i'll do the other test soon..

Hi Everyone,

Reading all posts, I make a test with WHITE NOISE (all frequencies with the same power)

The method was:

1-) Creating a source 24bits, 48kHz, Stereo WAV.
2-) Generating a WHITE NOISE with -1.0db (to avoid distortion)
3-) Saving the .wav as .mp3 in the formats:

Format - Size in bytes - Compression
Wav 24bits 48kHz - 288.046 - 0,00
MP3 128Kbps 44.1kHz - 18.288 - 15,75
MP3 128Kbps 48.0kHz - 18.432 - 15,63
MP3 192Kbps 44.1kHz - 26.856 - 10,73
MP3 192Kbps 48.0kHz - 27.072 - 10,64
MP3 320Kbps 44.1kHz - 43.392 - 6,64
MP3 320Kbps 48.0kHz - 43.993 - 6,55
MP3 VBR Highest 48kHz - 42.816 - 6,55

4-) Checking all the db frequencies on each file using a Fast Fourier Transform (FFT):
(click on the name format to download the mp3 or wav file)

Wav 24bits 48kHz


MP3 128Kbps 44.1kHz


MP3 128Kbps 48kHz


MP3 192Kbps 44.1kHz


MP3 192Kbps 48kHz


MP3 320Kbps 44.1kHz


MP3 320Kbps 48kHz


MP3 VBR Highest 48kHz


6-) Conclusion:
The MP3 Format removes high frequencies to compact the original wav source.
If you open any .mp3 format, you will notice a silence on the start and end of the file... So you may insert a silence on the start and end of the original wav to avoid loosing data.

If you want to distribute your files, you may use the MP3 320Kbps 48kHz format, because many high frequencies are still there after compacting.

But if you are working on 44.1kHz, the 192Kbps 44.1kHz is a good option too... Now it's up to you choose the best format...

You have to balance SIZE in bytes, and lost frequencies...

All my life I was using the Variable Bit Rate (VBR) Highest quality with 48kHz to compress my music, but now I see this format isn't good, because it looks like a MP3 128Kbps 48kHz but with low compression.

(sorry about my English)

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Abraços/Regards,

Luiz Menezes Jr.
Campinas/SP - Brazil
Eletronz Project
http://www.eletronz.com

Great test, luizmenezesjr. But I've got a better option: use OGG Vorbis instead of MP3. It still discards the top-end, but when there are a lot of frequencies present here, it attempts to keep more of them.

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Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by ZxZDeViLZxZ i would hope vinyl wasnt pressed from a cd source... i would hope itd be pressed from the highest quality format availble and not from a cd...

Think about how trance is produced man. From a whole bunch of digital audio. It is then exported to wav and the vinyl is pressed from this wav file, which is the equivalent of cd audio, 16 bit 44.1 khz. Sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water.

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Most recent tracks:
1) Ilan Bluestone - Spheres (State of Matter Eleventh Hour Mix)
2) MK-S - Illuminate (State of Matter Revival Mix)
3) Scarab - Vagabond (State of Matter Revival Mix)
4) Ferry Corsten & The Thrillseekers - Sublime (State of Matter Revival Mix)
5) State of Matter - Saving Icarus (Original Mix)

https://soundcloud.com/stateofmattermusic

I am trying to convert some old tapes to CD.

I also wanted to record in 192khz/24bit, to maintain the highest possible quality.

One of my friends also wanted a copy, but wanted a normal cd, at 44.1khz/16bit,

Will the downsampling really make the recording sound bad? or is it just better to record in 44.1 in the first place?

Will recording in 44.1, and recording in 192 and then down sampling to 44.1, sound the same?

Record your tapes using 48kHz/24bits...

It's a very good quality because the higher frequency that can be recorded is: 24.000 Hz (48kHz divide by 2), and humans can SOMETIMES hear 24kHz frequencies.

Is you record with 192kHz, you can keep your 96.000 Hz super high frequency, but we CAN'T hear it!, and I think your musics don't have any instrument that are using such high frequency.

(sorry about my English)

___________________
Abraços/Regards,

Luiz Menezes Jr.
Campinas/SP - Brazil
Eletronz Project
http://www.eletronz.com

further to the issues regarding vinyl. please take into account that the accuracy of the sound reproduced is variable and depends on many factors, not least of which include:

1) record wear (how many times the record has been played)
2) dust/lint on the surface of the vinyl
3) the frequency response of the stylus being used
4) stylus wear

the tracking weight of the stylus and the shape of the needle also influence record wear. a badly worn record sounds noticeably inferior. dust and lint on the surface of the record produce pops and clicks on playback and whilst some people like this characteristic of vinyl its not conductive to accurately representing the sound of the master recording. additionally, lint on the surface of the vinyl can effect tracking and if a stylus doesnt track properly in the groove you can introduce quite severe record wear since the needle exerts massive pressure on the groove if not properly aligned (this again also depends on the tonearm configuration and the shape of the stylus).

record wear is also downward exponential in a sense. the first few plays are were the greatest amount of wear occurs. after a hundred or so plays subsequent degradation is not noticeable although by that point you will probably have new records and will be rinsing those instead.

all told cd is generally a more reliable medium for retaining quality of the original disk recording because it does not experience wear through play and the frequency response of a laser lens is generally cannot generally be compromised in the same way in which a stylus wears over time.

quote:

It's a very good quality because the higher frequency that can be recorded is: 24.000 Hz (48kHz divide by 2), and humans can SOMETIMES hear 24kHz frequencies. Is you record with 192kHz, you can keep your 96.000 Hz super high frequency, but we CAN'T hear it!, and I think your musics don't have any instrument that are using such high frequency.

24,000 hz is largely inaudible. you would have to play the signal at fairly high amplitude before you become aware that it is there and you typically notice high frequency sound at high amplitude because it devastates your ears. for all intents and purposes there is very little noticeable difference between a 48,000hz recording and a 44,100hz recording. dj thy mentioned something about 48,000hz recordings before and it would be cool if he could pop in and reiterate some of it since i forgot what it was. but it was informative.

with a 96,000hz recording and nyquest theorum the highest reproducible frequency is 48,000hz which is far and away above the limits of human hearing. and in either case those frequencies about 20,000 hz typically arent driven at very high amplitudes so it becomes very difficult to notice that they are there. i sometimes swear i only notice the difference because i have a bunch of spectrum analysers open and am actively listening for differences in each recording. in club? nobody will give a damn. base graffiti's house always wins will devastate slinky even if its played on a cassette recorder.