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Originally posted by kaffeemeister Can't I say the same for Christianity where they stole the ideas of Christ and added bits and pieces later on Ecumenial councils, as Christianity has undisputed similaritities with several other self professed or rumoured deities around the time. Sorry for knocking ya down, just thought you wanted to know that bit of info

ok, lets turn this into a religious battlefield. provide evidence for your allegations, and ill counter.

really, ide rather not get into it...

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What Muslim right are you refering to?

well, muslims have mecca. jews should get jerusalem.

do u realize that islam makes saudi arabia rich?? the millions of pilgrims each year to see the kabbah, and how they pray in the direction of mecca, and how they have to travel to mecca. sometimes ive thought that muslims are really worshipping mecca rather than anything else. thats just my observation though.

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Catholics have the Pope..prods have..?and aethists have nothing..

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Originally posted by zig Catholics have the Pope..prods have..?and aethists have nothing..

protestants have jesus christ, atheists have nothing because they believe in nothing. but really their faith is in this world, so they have this world. they do worship something, if not a god, then music, their job, becoming rich, its impossible to not have faith in anything.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: protestants have jesus christ, atheists have nothing because they believe in nothing. but really their faith is in this world, so they have this world. they do worship something, if not a god, then music, their job, becoming rich, its impossible to not have faith in anything.

I can honestly say I don't believe in anything. But my views on almost everything are pretty scientific, so I guess that's why I don't believe in anything 'metaphysical' or whatever the term is.

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Originally posted by George Smiley To be fair, he'd just use the internet... Anyway, historical records are archaeology (if they came from the right time)

Not necessarily, history is what was written down. Archaeology is what isn't.

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Archaeology can never prove opinions, but it can prove or disprove dates or events - if the Israelites came from Egypt, there would have been shit loads of evidence in the Sinai...yet there is nothing whatsoever

Right.

But lack of evidence can not disprove a theory. Just because we have no proof God exist, doesn't mean he doesn't.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem so improbable that "shit loads" of evidence wouldn't be found in the Sinai regarding the Jews. The Jews there were nomadic - they did not have houses, dwellings, etc, they were shepards.

It is also uncertain as to the exact numbers of Jews that would have actually been during exodous and the timespan it lasted (who says it lasted 40 years? maybe just 4 months. Just because one part of the story is exagerated or incorrect does not mean the whole lot of it is wrong). Perhaps in all reality Jews moved back from Egypt to Judea for a period of 40 years... and oral lure changed it into the tradition we all know now as exodus. There are some other improbable events that might also indicate such a timeline such as the 7 plagues that some archaeologist believe could have actually happened over a period of a certain number of years....

I can't believe the fact that nobody found 'evidence' of an event that happened 3000+ years ago for a timespan not longer than 40 years, with a nomadic, small population, in a vast desert,
is proof that something didn't happen. Perhaps we don't know where to look or perhaps no evidence does exist. It still does not disprove it.

There are other archaeological indicators (such as the fact that the drought stated in the bible as the cause for the Jews to move to Egypt (which was flourishing with food) actually did happen) that can lead us to believe good reason for something to happen.

Anyway, there can't really be any archaelogical evidence for the Jews. What are you going to do? DNA test a mummy to try and find some mythic Jew gene? Theres proof that people lived in Sinia some 3000 odd years ago. There is proof that people were enslaved in Egypt during the time that they build the pyrmaids. Aside from that it really all and always will ever be speculation with some degree of certainty.

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Originally posted by Dj Tomer I can honestly say I don't believe in anything. But my views on almost everything are pretty scientific, so I guess that's why I don't believe in anything 'metaphysical' or whatever the term is.

if u dont believe in anything, how are your views scientific? do u not believe in science?

u really do believe in something. your faith is in science, and so your faith is science, and so your religion is science. there is no such thing as an atheist. we were created spiritual beings, and so we have to worship something, its in our nature. doesnt mean u go to the museum every sunday and sing songs of worship to the scientist guy. but wherever your faith lies, is where your religion lies.

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Last edited by Krypton on Dec-28-2004 at 04:12

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: if u dont believe in anything, how are your views scientific? do u not believe in science. u really do believe in something. your faith is in science, and so your faith is science, and so your religion is science. there is no such thing as an atheist. we were created spiritual beings, and so we have to worship something, its in our nature.

I was gonna say this in my post, but didn't because I was hoping noone would hove to point that out.
I do believe in the laws of science, but you can't say it is my religion. I think you're confusing atheism with nihilism. I simply meant I don't believe in anything religious or spiritual (atheism), and not that I don't believe in anything at all, like gravity and stuff like that.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: and so we have to worship something, its in our nature.

not to butt your argument, but I think humans are quiet capable of acting outside their 'nature' as gays/transexuals/St. Andrew/pedophiles and the like have demonstrated

ok I'm sorry St. Andrew, that one was pretty bad

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i edited my message, there was more i had to say, so read it again and respond.

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if u dont believe in anything, how are your views scientific? do u not believe in science? u really do believe in something. your faith is in science, and so your faith is science, and so your religion is science. there is no such thing as an atheist. we were created spiritual beings, and so we have to worship something, its in our nature. doesnt mean u go to the museum every sunday and sing songs of worship to the scientist guy. but wherever your faith lies, is where your religion lies.

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I was gonna say this in my post, but didn't because I was hoping noone would hove to point that out. I do believe in the laws of science, but you can't say it is my religion. I think you're confusing atheism with nihilism. I simply meant I don't believe in anything religious or spiritual (atheism), and not that I don't believe in anything at all, like gravity and stuff like that.

to believe is to have faith. you believe in the laws of science. and so your faith is in the laws of science. and to have faith is to have religion, and so your religion is the laws of science. you are naturalist. do u get my logic? there is no such thing as an atheist. everybody believes in something. something is god to everyone. whether its trance music or otherwise.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: i edited my message, there was more i had to say, so read it again and respond. to believe is to have faith. you believe in the laws of science. and so your faith is in the laws of science. and to have faith is to have religion, and so your religion is the laws of science. you are naturalist. do u get my logic? there is no such thing as an atheist. everybody believes in something. something is god to everyone. whether its trance music or otherwise.

What is your definition of religion? It's more then just believing in something. Religion is a way of life, not just a set of beliefs. bah,whatever, I'm don't want to get into this any further really.

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Originally posted by Yoepus not to butt your argument, but I think humans are quiet capable of acting outside their 'nature' as gays/transexuals/St. Andrew/pedophiles and the like have demonstrated ok I'm sorry St. Andrew, that one was pretty bad

Hahaha, you're such an ass. But it's a good one!

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1+1=10

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ok, lets turn this into a religious battlefield. provide evidence for your allegations, and ill counter. really, ide rather not get into it...

I rather not as well... as i predict that it'll get messy ... perhaps Opus might be willing to give ya some insights into the topic. However, as a regular trend of "religious discussions", it tends get long and tedious for both sides, at the end we'll either agree on nothing or agree on little. At the same time if one is not aware of the tone of language he/she speaks in, it'll easy piss the other person off .

LINK
The above link is just of the stuff i was referring to. As the header of the page says "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed", it's predictable you'll disagree with it, and i'm fine with that

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to believe is to have faith. you believe in the laws of science. and so your faith is in the laws of science. and to have faith is to have religion, and so your religion is the laws of science. you are naturalist. do u get my logic? there is no such thing as an atheist. everybody believes in something. something is god to everyone. whether its trance music or otherwise.

The definition of the world faith is heavily disputed, you can say that it describes "complete confidence in something" or "belief in the divine and supernatural powers"; either that or "all of the above".

To be an atheist it's just simply " god == "null"; ", any other conflicitly definition of it within the whole belief system of a person would crash the OS . But i think where you're getting, and you're sorta right in that.

There's a lot of words in the english language that aren't "explicit" enough, thus i propose we start using "nswspeak"