quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Israeli = Jew, Jew = Israeli, live with it, its a generalization yes, but we all think it, so lets stop pretending. Now you can be against the Jews - thats ok. And you can hate the Jews and wish their death - that's anti-semitism.

that's not how i see it. when i think of israeli, i think of israelies or people living is israel, if you wish (not israeli citizens, but people who domicile there). this includes persons of various religions and denominations and on religious as well, jews (of all of the various branches), catholic christians, eastern orthodox christians, muslims (sunni and shias).

its too bad you even accept this generalization because its certainly makes worse any rational dialogue anyone can have on the mideast.

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley They speak posh, not like they speak round my end what so ever (and not like most places in the country either!) If you would like to know how they speak where I live have a look thru the following and ask your self if you've heard em talk like that at the cinema! http://www.psychol.ucl.ac.uk/nico/E...827-25-jan-1999

Tha naws that link is hilarious . Next time I'm guinup, I'll read it again.

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you don't like the world anti-semitism? whatever...

i also never said or believed that "Muslims have some kind of genetic hatred for the Jews" like you say George. no one is born with ideas like this film, people are educated into this way of thinking for a reason.

10000-100 years ago - the church was responsible for this education.
100 years ago - the russian kings were responsible for it.
65 years ago - well...

anti-semitsm is a tool that was proven, as an effective tool for inciting people into the level they are ready (or agree) to exterminate a whole race.
I think this series is sick, and i'm convinced that the responsible for its creation are the iranian goverment and muslim religious leadrs. this is how you create suicide bombers, this is how you convince people that killing isralis (jews) is an obligation.

quote:

People throw the word 'anti-semetic' around a little to much when people are 'anti-israel'

people are also throwing 'israeli-policy' around whenever they hear about anti-semitic actions on the news.
its so easy to blame israeli policy - suddenly its ok to demonize and spread hate. but i didnt mean to discuss it when i opened the thread. this series is sick in watever context you look at it, esspecialy in the contexs of anti-semitic motives used in history, but not only.

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Jews arent the only semetic people. Arabs are semites too. So calling Arab's anti-semetic is kinda absurd. Unless you think they hate themselves.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Jews arent the only semetic people. Arabs are semites too. So calling Arab's anti-semetic is kinda absurd. Unless you think they hate themselves.

not this again.

[bangs forehead into wall] [repeatedly]

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange its too bad you even accept this generalization because its certainly makes worse any rational dialogue anyone can have on the mideast.

Look Israel a democracy yes but firstly it is a Jewish nation.
If you and others can't accept this, there will never be any rational dialog in the middle east.

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Anyway, its not the Iranian media that are the worst anti-semites (apparently...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St...1397723,00.html

Apparently according to the Ministry for the Diaspora the Guardian, Independent and BBC are the cause of the huge increase of anti-semitism in the UK

Obviously, describing Jenin as a massacre is a big no no, as only 58 people were killed (er...how many people were killed in the Munich "Massacre"? Oh they were Israelis not Arabs? Ok well that one can be described as a massacre then)

So, there you have it, anti-Israel = anti-semitism (in fact IIRC Ariel Sharon stated that anything anti-Israel would be considered anti-semitic). Therefore, anti-semitism is a meaningless hollow term...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Anyway, its not the Iranian media that are the worst anti-semites (apparently...) http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St...1397723,00.html

Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK.

Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started".

Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs".

Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11.

Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday.

There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK. Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started". Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs". Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11. Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday. There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

I dont think I really agree with you, why does "the IDF are dogs" translate into "Jews are dogs"? And I dont think saying the IDF are dogs is anti-semitic.

As for the UK, I don't think anti-semitism is any different to the more general racism. That woman you talked about would (more likely imo) say you dirty Paki, if the person who brushed up against her were asian. Most anti-semitic acts in the UK (and the rest of Europe) are committed by Muslims, not white people. People in this country (non-Muslims) who are anti-semitic are racist, ie, they dont like any race, its nothing special about Jewish people as the term anti-semitic would imply. Thats another reason I dont like the term

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I dont think I really agree with you, why does "the IDF are dogs" translate into "Jews are dogs"? And I dont think saying the IDF are dogs is anti-semitic.

From your article:

"You can't brainwash people for four years that Israel is an illegitimate country and that Israelis are like the Nazis and that Israelis are monsters and expect that nothing will happen to Jews."

quote:

As for the UK, I don't think anti-semitism is any different to the more general racism.

Look, just because you don't think it doesn't make others not think it.

You could be right about that women - and you could be wrong. I know examples of both cases.

Because your muslim populations attack Jews it is justifable to have anti-semtism?

Who do you think would most attribute the correlation between IDF are dogs and Jews are dogs, British muslims or Anglo-saxons?

Start understanding that muslims are part of your society and hence part of the responsbility of your society.

quote:

People in this country (non-Muslims) who are anti-semitic are racist, ie, they dont like any race, its nothing special about Jewish people as the term anti-semitic would imply. Thats another reason I dont like the term

This isn't true either - there is something special about the Jews because they are not only an ethnic group but a religious group too.

I have met people in the USA who love Jews but think black people should be enslaved. Not all racist have to be consistant.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK. Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started". Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs". Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11. Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday. There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

I think its very rare that you will find racists that are in any way exclusive as to the race they hate,they generally just hate all other racial groups other than their own,and even within their own racial group they will generally have hatred for minorities ie homosexuals lesbians etc like i said i dont think they are in any way exclusive with their hate....

And as for people who translate the IDF are dogs into jews are dogs i fail to grasp the connection myself....

I can get the connection between someone saying the IDF are dogs and someone translating that into meaning he dosnt agree with the Isreali governments policies on security or foriegn policy...but hardly jews are all dogs...i just dont get it

As for the point about about Saddam and 9/11....the republicans basically played on the fears Americans had after the attacks in the US..i doubt if the majorithy believe it now that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 thats if the majorithy believed it in the first place...and thats a seperate issue to the recent election or whats happening in Iraq today...

And besides havnt the Isrealis being trying for years to brainwash the rest of the world that we are anti semites if we dont agree with them......