quote:

For some crazy reason, I can mix breakbeat with breakbeat, and also in and out of 4/4 beats without any problems, mixing 4/4 to 4/4 is harder for me, don't get it, maybe I'm meant to be a full on Breakbeat boy.

i get this too. but the mixing experience i have is all hardcore, freeform, drum and bass and breakbeat. mixing in and out of breaks i dont find any more difficult that mixing into or out of 4/4 or just mixing straight 4/4 kicks. its the mixing in general that i find problematic. heh.

seriously though, getting yourself some freeform records and a few breakbeat ones is a good idea. freeform quite often has breaks and 4/4. most freeform is designed to be played on 45 speed. but you can get away with +6 or 7 on 33 speed and it doesnt sound stupid (although its debateable that freeform doesnt sound stupid played at the speed it was intended. heheheh. i do luvs me hardcore). so it'll fit into fast breakbeat. or you can do it with drum and bass as long as you dont mind 180 bpm mash ups. you will get seriously fecking good at mixing into/out of breaks cuz of the way freeform intros are often combos of 4/4 kicks and breakbeats (sometimes both together).

Last edited by Derivative on Feb-02-2005 at 01:35

common breakbeats:

K--- ---- --K- ----
---- S--- ---- S---

most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute.

K-K- ---K --K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

K--K ---- --KK ----
---- S--- ---- S---

in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like

K-K- ---- ---- ----
---- S--- -S-- ----

or

K-K- ---- ---- ----
---- S--S -SS- -S-S

theres plenty more but the basic idea is there.

4/4 kicks ala trance looks like

K--- K--- K--- K---
---- S--- ---- S---

which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap).

ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like

K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K-

you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast.

this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this:

K-K- ---K --K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note:

K-K- --K- K-K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note.

in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*...

in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

Last edited by Derivative on Feb-02-2005 at 02:00

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative common breakbeats: K--- ---- --K- ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute. K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- K--K ---- --KK ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--- -S-- ---- or K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--S -SS- -S-S theres plenty more but the basic idea is there. 4/4 kicks ala trance looks like K--- K--- K--- K--- ---- S--- ---- S--- which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap). ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K- you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast. this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this: K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note: K-K- --K- K-K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note. in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*... in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

way too much to read... just keep practicing...

edit: I did read it

Last edited by on Feb-02-2005 at 02:26

i do agree that i should probably spend more time practicing mah beatmatching rather than typing up huge tuts on how to mix out of breaks. but in the absense of any decks in my room, it makes me feel like im doing something productive and musical. hah!

woah man that made by brain hurt and i've been playing drums since the 6th grade

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quote:

Originally posted by Zild woah man that made by brain hurt and i've been playing drums since the 6th grade

Yea man.. I only said I read it, doesn't mean I comprehended it very well..

I have a few hip-hop and breaks songs that are a bitch to mix because they have snares going crazy all over the place. Or they'll just have a snare on the two and then on like the 3.5 beat instead of the two and the four.

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most breaks songs will have more snares yes, but those are the ones you single out with your ears. theres more than just simple off hats in trance and yet you can make the off outs between kick drums. same with breaks. and come on! if you've been drumming you'll know exactly what i mean! whats so hard to understand about it?

I know exactly what you mean because I've been drumming I just think you made it a little bit confusing though. I'm talking stuff like Aphex Twins that has snares and rolls and all sorts of precussion all over the place but is still in 4/4.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative common breakbeats: K--- ---- --K- ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute. K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- K--K ---- --KK ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--- -S-- ---- or K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--S -SS- -S-S theres plenty more but the basic idea is there. 4/4 kicks ala trance looks like K--- K--- K--- K--- ---- S--- ---- S--- which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap). ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K- you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast. this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this: K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note: K-K- --K- K-K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note. in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*... in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

whoa. damn man. i read it, understood it for the most part. thanks.

my problem isnt necessarily knowing what element of the track to use when beatmatching. if you put a breaks song on I can tap in time and hear what is keeping the beat (s, k). for some reason i feel like i dont hear it when i start mixing in my next song.

maybe since its not an obvious kick that when i mix in a 4x4 which has a repetitive kick it throws me off.

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You just need more practice then. It comes with time.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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