quote:

Originally posted by NYGblue I would read what the Economist had to say about European Healthcare... They clearly seem to disagree with you and so do I.

I would also offer that the U.S. is near the bottom of industrialized countries in terms of life span and infant mortality rates. I agree with Neo Phono that some of his ideas would cut healthcare costs though in our current system.

___________________
Download My Spring '08 Mix Here

Thurs May 15: Influence @ Tini Martini w/ Kris B. vs. Nosmo, Rikler & Mike Palmeri
Thurs June 5: Under the Influence @ Tini Martini w/Mathias Matthew, Jack Kim & more TBA

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 I would also offer that the U.S. is near the bottom of industrialized countries in terms of life span and infant mortality rates. I agree with Neo Phono that some of his ideas would cut healthcare costs though in our current system.

Cutting costs is fine, but even most economists agree that the market doesn't best serve the interest of society at large in some cases. Healthcare and Education are clearcut examples, and Economists seem to have no problem noting it. AMERICAN economists to be specific.

Of course, Americans won't support that b/c they, unlike other societies have a terrible problem paying taxes under this fake notion of earning... Admittedly it is annoying when someone says they are paying you X amount but you receive Y amount due to taxes... its a bit of a mindfuck. However, Y is what you are really getting and should think of it that way. Though talking about changing the attitudes of people is a huge stretch so I will leave it at that.

___________________
You have one life to live... SO DANCE!

www.protonradio.com <--- A Higher Experience.

quote:

Originally posted by NYGblue Cutting costs is fine, but even most economists agree that the market doesn't best serve the interest of society at large in some cases. Healthcare and Education are clearcut examples, and Economists seem to have no problem noting it. AMERICAN economists to be specific. Of course, Americans won't support that b/c they, unlike other societies have a terrible problem paying taxes under this fake notion of earning... Admittedly it is annoying when someone says they are paying you X amount but you receive Y amount due to taxes... its a bit of a mindfuck. However, Y is what you are really getting and should think of it that way. Though talking about changing the attitudes of people is a huge stretch so I will leave it at that.

Blue, I'm totally with you. I personally believe everyone willing to work and make this country better and do their part has a right to healthcare, education, shelter and food. This story has gotten a lot of attention in the media today, because generally the mindset is people can't afford to pay bills because they are not self sufficient and responsible, where this is pointing out that a lot of people who go to work every day and take responsibility can fall deep into debt and lose what they worked for very easily.

I'm also agreeing though with the mindset that you set forth that many have, which is why we can't make all this happen at present, despite that those numbers on Sweden's healthcare looked pretty good that were cited in a previous thread. I'm agreeing with Neophono on some of the points he made, because they would help cut costs within the system we currently have and would be possible within the current political climate. Essentially it would be an improvement to at least some degree if some of those things were implemented.

___________________
Download My Spring '08 Mix Here

Thurs May 15: Influence @ Tini Martini w/ Kris B. vs. Nosmo, Rikler & Mike Palmeri
Thurs June 5: Under the Influence @ Tini Martini w/Mathias Matthew, Jack Kim & more TBA

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 Blue, I'm totally with you. I personally believe everyone willing to work and make this country better and do their part has a right to healthcare, education, shelter and food. This story has gotten a lot of attention in the media today, because generally the mindset is people can't afford to pay bills because they are not self sufficient and responsible, where this is pointing out that a lot of people who go to work every day and take responsibility can fall deep into debt and lose what they worked for very easily. I'm also agreeing though with the mindset that you set forth that many have, which is why we can't make all this happen at present, despite that those numbers on Sweden's healthcare looked pretty good that were cited in a previous thread. I'm agreeing with Neophono on some of the points he made, because they would help cut costs within the system we currently have and would be possible within the current political climate. Essentially it would be an improvement to at least some degree if some of those things were implemented.

Indeed... can't disagree with anything you said here. I could add more but I feel that it is best to let this discussion move on. Still wishin' I was in London having free healthcare and all the Funky House a groover could desire.

___________________
You have one life to live... SO DANCE!

www.protonradio.com <--- A Higher Experience.

I came across this image upon debating Trance-Xer in another thread about the debt....

I don't know how accurate it is, but from my other research its not too far off.

All I say is whoever thinks the USA doesn't have a government health care program look at this:


Pardon me if I'm not one that believes throwing money at the problem will fix it.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I came across this image upon debating Trance-Xer in another thread about the debt.... I don't know how accurate it is, but from my other research its not too far off. All I say is whoever thinks the USA doesn't have a government health care program look at this: Pardon me if I'm not one that believes throwing money at the problem will fix it.

I COMPLETELY and UTTERLY agree.. the US spends more per capita on health care and does the shittiest job at providing it... Some really really really serious structural reforms need to take place..

___________________
You have one life to live... SO DANCE!

www.protonradio.com <--- A Higher Experience.

Oh another thing - I recall seeing a 60 minute show or similar about this issue a couple months back.

The conclusion they raised and this survey nudges to this, is that health care is very affordable for every but the middle class in the USA.

The rich can afford it and the poor can afford it.
Rich goes without saying. Poor - if you are poor in the states and need healthcare there are tons of funds at your disposal, you will often come out even with serious long-term disease/accidents that need physical therapy and the like for next to nothing.

But if you earn say $1000 or so higher... You are instantly disqualified for many of these government programs. Basically everybody in the USA but the mid-low middle class is covered in one way or another.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

Well the debate we had a couple weeks ago brought up that countries with universal health care pay less per person in total than we do between government and private insurance expenditures. The others have longer life spans, but wind up visiting the doctor less frequently. Lots of different ways to speculate how that's possible.

___________________
Download My Spring '08 Mix Here

Thurs May 15: Influence @ Tini Martini w/ Kris B. vs. Nosmo, Rikler & Mike Palmeri
Thurs June 5: Under the Influence @ Tini Martini w/Mathias Matthew, Jack Kim & more TBA

While I don't advocate socialism, I do appreciate our Healthcare system here in Canada.
(I even had to use it to call an ambulance for my wife about a month ago)
It's the people that abuse it that I don't like...
I remember a study regarding sickness and how 2/3 of all patients in hospitals don't need to be there.
Someone know the one I'm talking about?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus the mid-low middle class

The what?!?!

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono The European healthcare system is doomed due to its own population shift. In some countries, such as Italy, the death rate has now eclipsed the birth rate, and a top-heavy population of elderly cannot be supported by such a small working population. In most European countries where this has not already happened, it is beginning to. To say that the socialized healthcare system of Europe and other countries is problem-free is absurd, but wait another 20 years and we'll see the true staying-power of a pyramid-sceme funding plan that is being turned upside down. Keep the costs as low as possible and allow the individual to pay for his own healthcare. The only system that works. I can afford to pay for myself, but I can't pay for 2 or more retired elderly individuals or those "in need" who cannot.

Did you just make that up?!

Anyway, even if that is true, it makes no difference, cos the old people wont be able to afford medical insurance so either way they are fucked

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I cannot believe that the richest country in the world actually makes people pay to get medical treatment!!!!

Nobody ever got rich by simply giving things away. Surely even you can appreciate that concept!