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Posted by Jayx1 OK so whats next? There are many other breeds "known" for biting. Where do we draw the line?

Chihuahuas! Those agressive little ******s should be banned. They have one mean bite!

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Whatever it may take I keep on trying.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Sure it should. They are passing laws to protect people like her and people like her are saying that they dont need it. Sounds like an opinion more worthy than that of a politician

No it shouldn't, because then it makes it right for us to take in the opinions of those who were first case victims and are for the banning of Pitbulls. You can't pick and choose who you want to hear cheer or hate certain things based on opinion, its fallacious in an arguement to do so. It's a shame you arent willing to see how dangerous the idea of accepting the opinions of non-experts is in this case, when its the very idea of people who dont have a clue that are bringing this upon the city in the first place.

I guess whatever wins your fights, fight fire with fire as they say.

Actually i applaud her for not being a knee jerk responder. This is the difference between listening to her and someone else who has been through it. To ban the breed even though the science is against it is ridiculous. That fact that she has been through all that she has been through and still believes that this is not right is testiment to the fact that she can see things clearly.

Sadly its the politicians and those who support the ban that are the knee jerkers. I cant wait until this ban everything mentality that society is suffering from comes home to roost and affects the things that those people hold dear.

I bet those who are against the pit bull ban support the smoking ban for example.

You cant just pick and choose this ban mentality because once you set the mood it's hard to reverse it.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

This is another example of the poor methods of the McGuinty government.

Rather than make rational laws/legislation, and then enforce them, Dalton is making yet ANOTHER sweeping ban that doesn't attack the problem, just a symptom.

Like with the smoking ban. Smoking and purchasing them is legal (and taxing them), but smoking in public is not? Instead of a blanket ban, bars and restaurants should have been legislated options, like smoking areas, installing proper ventilation, % of staff positions for smokers to work smoking areas etc.

Kneejerk idiocy is the name of the Liberal big-brother mentality. Afterall, they are morally superior and smarter than the rest of us poor folk.

Rather than legislate leash and muzzle laws for ALL dogs in large population centres, they go for the quick fix. What about owner education for some or all breeds prior to sale and proof of it when your dog is licensed? There are more deaths a year from aspirin than dog attacks, are we going to ban that next?

Funny that the Conservatives were so heavily bashed in this country, but the majority of the economic rape of our social infrastructure, and depleting of our freedoms have been @ the hands of Liberal Federal and Provincial governments.

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Originally posted by MarkT "arrogant pricks", Jay? come on now, that's a bit much. They're enacting legislation (albeit flawed) based partially upon public demand. If they ignore the public's wishes, aren't they THEN being arrogant?

If they care so much about public demand, then why haven't they done anything about auto insurance yet? I hear A LOT more complaints about that.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 OK so whats next? There are many other breeds "known" for biting. Where do we draw the line?

this isn't about breeds known for biting...it's about a type of dog that CANNOT be made to STOP once it attacks.

Other dogs will either halt an attack on command, or are at least able to...and are able to be MUCH more easily subdued with force if they will not.

it has been demonstrated that pit bulls go into an irreversible "attack mode" and simply will NOT ceaze an attack once it has begun. Given that, along with the near impossibility of subduing them (ie. without multiple gunshots), then this type of dog IS different that others that merely bite or attack when provoked.

ie. the dogs are being said to be inherently unpredictable and uncontrollable in the event of attack. The vast majority of dogs, even those that "bite", do not fall under this category. So the ban isn't as unreasonable as you're suggesting...it's simply inadequate as we need to address not only "pit bulls", but owners who do not maintain control over ANY dog.

I've read the experts' opinions...one of which came from the head of the U.S. Vet association, isn't so much "against" the ban as they're saying it's not productive (or even accurate). Reason being, what I mentioned before...that "pit bulls" are not an actual breed..."pit bull" apparently refers to characteristics that many breeds share, so this bylaw in fact refers to breeds that aren't actually the intended targets of the legislation.

So you know better than the experts? You should run for the Liberals!

The experts basically say that breed bans wont work because they cant define a breed. But thats the case for most dogs. Not very many dogs out there are purebread.

If current leash laws were respected and owners were more harshly punished for abuse we would have fewer incidents of vicious dogs.

Im sick of this ban everything mentality.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Sure it should. They are passing laws to protect people like her and people like her are saying that they dont need it. Sounds like an opinion more worthy than that of a politician

How ridiculous is it that someone gets attacked by a vicious breed and still says they belong on the street? I'll put all my money on the fact that she's a dog owner herself. These owners value dogs like they're better than their own kids. They can get their arm taken off and still be kissing their dogs ass "oh the poor thing doesn't know any better".

I've been waiting for them to ban pitbulls for a long time, hopefully german shepherds are next. No fucking around with muzzle and leash laws that nobody obeys while little kids get mauled and killed. Good job guys.

Last edited by jdjd on Feb-15-2005 at 01:10

Id be pissed off. Legislate them sure. banning them is bad.

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Retired TA.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 So you know better than the experts? You should run for the Liberals! The experts basically say that breed bans wont work because they cant define a breed. But thats the case for most dogs. Not very many dogs out there are purebread. If current leash laws were respected and owners were more harshly punished for abuse we would have fewer incidents of vicious dogs. Im sick of this ban everything mentality.

Did you even read my post? Exactly where am I implying that I know more than the experts? I said I've read the experts' opinions...and then you just REPEATED EXACTLY WHAT I SAID with regard to why they don't see the bans as worthwhile! lol

how many more cases do we need where some surprised owner says "but my dog has never done that before" after a mauling before we enact some legislation?

most dogs that bite don't maul and kill...certain "pit bull" varieties do...some experts say it's how their brain works...they go into a permanent attack mode that can't be halted, even by multiple gunshot wounds...great!

sorry, but we don't need that kind of dog in our society...oh but the "rights" of the good pit bull owners

this is just another fundamental disagreement we have...I feel that as a society, we can evolve past silly notions of unlimited freedoms and rights when we recognize something that is *clearly* not beneficial to our society.

I'm not much of a subscriber to punishment for the sake of punishment...so that pillar of the community who's pit bull attacks and kills someone...what is an effective leash law violating punishment that is suitable for the "crime" they committed? jail? sorry, I'm not paying for that. a fine? what fine can be charged that will "equal" the damage done? don't fines just hit the lower class harder than the middle or upper class?

my position isn't perfect either...but the ban also isn't simple Liberal arrogance as you'd have people believe...it's just not enough on it's own.

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Originally posted by jdjd How ridiculous is it that someone gets attacked by a vicious breed and still says they belong on the street? I'll put all my money on the fact that she's a dog owner herself. These owners value dogs like they're better than their own kids. They can get their arm taken off and still be kissing their dogs ass "oh the poor thing doesn't know any better". I've been waiting for them to ban pitbulls for a long time, hopefully german shepherds are next. No fucking around with muzzle and leash laws that nobody obeys while little kids get mauled and killed. Good job guys.

she doesnt own a dog. The more you post the more ignorant you sound. Id quit while im ahead.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill