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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > martin tells the Yanks to stick the missile shield up thier arse
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

It seems the most obvious motive by Canada here is really two-fold:

1. Save their money for more worthy domestic projects

2. The fucking thing is shoddy and faulty, even after all these years of research and testing – who wouldn’t be laughing at our product right now?


The missile shield is a pretty big waste of money. If you disagree, might I suggest you take it up with Bush himself – considering that he’s proposes pulling a buttload of funding for his own missile defense project for his 2006 budget. Regardless, I don’t buy the hypothetical argument in Shadowolf’s example of merely hoping the damn thing will work someday, and that we should continue to pour hundreds of billions into the project so that it will someday work. Whatever happened to the notion of fiscal responsibility amongst conservatives for Christ’s sakes? The last I recall, most conservatives complain to high fucking heaven when a program isn’t satisfactory but yet we continue to throw money towards those programs. The last I recall, most conservatives usually claim that buttloads of money doesn’t necessarily fix the problem.

Well it’s pretty obvious that the truckload of money isn’t fixing this problem – hence the rationale for Bush proposing to scale back funding. Are we really supposed to blame Canada or anyone else who thinks our program sucks and is a waste of money? Almost every damn test that’s been performed has resulted in failures. Our Administration and Pentagon has boasted for years that we have the technology, we have the equipment to make it happen. Maybe that’s what burns me a little bit as well – all fucking talk with nothing to support it.

Look, I don’t mind funding some research on the project – I think it is a worthy cause against rogue nations and terrorist groups. We’re all aware of the intelligence reports that Al Qaeda is attempting to acquire a nuke. So yes, I think the idealism is worthwhile. But as I mentioned before, ironically I think even Bush realizes that the money going to the program has not been well-spent. We need to go back to the drawing board on this one and have more support for the theoretical research here before taking our toys out into the field.

Oh, one more thing – who the hell’s gonna nuke Canada? No wonder they think it’s money wasted!


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Old Post Feb-24-2005 20:38  United States
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swilly
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: All power to the Ojibway Soviets!!

quote:
Originally posted by ShadoWolf

BMD is not aimed that Russia, China and others, at least not initially. Those countries are still in check due to MAD.

BMD is protection against rouge nations and groups.


Keep believing what they tell you dude!

The amount of interceptors deployed is supposedly the exact number needed to prevent chinas 18 or so missiles.

A concidence?

Old Post Feb-24-2005 20:50  Canada
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igottaknow
PerfectTeeth R4 Dinosaurs



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: The Future

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
It seems the most obvious motive by Canada here is really two-fold:...


+1

(I usually don't use this in the PDD board but what the hell)

Old Post Feb-24-2005 20:51 
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swilly
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: All power to the Ojibway Soviets!!

quote:
Originally posted by ShadoWolf


rouge nations and groups.


I love this term rouge nation. When i think of it I imagine a nation that does not listen to others or international organizations, invades thier territories, refutes laws and does at is pleases without care or consideration.

Hmmm which one does that sound like?

Old Post Feb-24-2005 20:53  Canada
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igottaknow
PerfectTeeth R4 Dinosaurs



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: The Future

quote:
Originally posted by swilly
I love this term rouge nation. When i think of it I imagine a nation that does not listen to others or international organizations, invades thier territories, refutes laws and does at is pleases without care or consideration.

Hmmm which one does that sound like?

*raises hand and waves it frantically*

oh, oh, oh, I know

Old Post Feb-24-2005 21:18 
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ShadoWolf
ISOS



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: State of Trance

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
It seems the most obvious motive by Canada here is really two-fold:

1. Save their money for more worthy domestic projects




Bush offered to pay for the whole thing and Canada still turned it down!! lol stupid


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Old Post Feb-25-2005 01:43  United Nations
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ShadoWolf
ISOS



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: State of Trance

quote:
Originally posted by swilly
Keep believing what they tell you dude!

The amount of interceptors deployed is supposedly the exact number needed to prevent chinas 18 or so missiles.

A concidence?


I suppse you would support the PRC if it attacked the U.S?


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Old Post Feb-25-2005 01:44  United Nations
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
We’re all aware of the intelligence reports that Al Qaeda is attempting to acquire a nuke.


I dont think Al Qaeda will ever have technology to develop a long distant nuclear missile. What they would do, would probably be to smuggle it in somehow and blow it in place, something for which the shield would not help at all.

Hmm i just got an idea for al queda: invade a russian nuclear facility and send the missile from there, probably already aimed at the US and everything... well for that a shield would help...

Old Post Feb-25-2005 01:59  Europe
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swilly
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: All power to the Ojibway Soviets!!

quote:
Originally posted by ShadoWolf
LIEBERALS TAKE NOTE:

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlig...zie041229a.html


BMD doesn't deserve such a bumpy ride

by Lewis MacKenzie

Never get behind me in a grocery store check-out line. You are guaranteed to be a silent observer as our cashier calls for a price, hands over to her replacement, chats with a relative who is entitled to 10% off most, but not all, of her items and is on her first day solo without someone showing her the ropes. I have equal luck on long commercial airline flights. No matter how I much I want to use the transit time to prepare for whatever awaits me at the other end, I am destined to be assigned a seat beside a gregarious talker. Last week’s trip to Calgary was no exception.

Him ?Eglancing up from his paper before I have my seat belt fastened: “Can you believe this missile defence thing? Those Yanks and that Bush guy are steamrolling us into helping them fill space with nuclear weapons.?E

Me - long pause - do I take the bait or not? What the Hell: “Well , not really, the only nuclear-tipped missiles out there would be the ones coming our way and those are the ones the U.S. wants to destroy before they get here.?E

Him: “But with all those nations like China, Russia, Israel, India, Pakistan and God knows how many others building nuclear missiles, this Star Wars system is going to need thousands of U.S. interceptors to handle the threat.?E

Me: “Absolutely not, and don’t confuse this current system with Ronald Regan’s Star Wars. The critics of Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) are intentionally calling it “Star Wars?Eto scare the public, particularly regarding the scope and cost of the system. The number of interceptors planned for the current system will be so small - somewhere around 40 to 50 ?Ethat none of the potential enemy countries you mentioned would be encouraged to increase their number of offensive missiles, as it would be easy for them to overwhelm our defensive shield with a fraction of their current inventory. This system is designed to handle the tiny number of incoming missiles that countries like North Korea or Iran might throw in our direction, intentionally or otherwise, as well as any that might be launched by some wacko terrorist organization, when and if they take control of some state’s nuclear capabilities.

Him: “That’s ridiculous! None of those folks have the capability to launch a ballistic missile against us and if they did, they wouldn’t risk being annihilated by the U.S. in retaliation.?E

Me: “You are right today ?Ebut what about tomorrow? We are dealing with groups who have as their number one stated priority the elimination of their Great Satan, the U.S. and her allies. Within the past few years some of these groups have sprayed children running away from school with machine gun fire, sent suicide bombers to blow up night clubs, and slowly, sometimes taking two to three minutes, have severed innocent victims heads from their bodies, keeping them alive as long as possible in the process. Do you really think they would be deterred by the thought of U.S. retaliation? Should we wait until they have the capability before we do anything about it?

Him: “Well let the U.S. worry about that, it’s not our problem. A little earlier you said, ‘our defensive shield?E it’s not ours, it’s the Americans?E?E

Me: “It just so happens that we are already involved. We have hundreds of military cooperation agreements with the U.S. signed since the end of the Second World War. The North American Aerospace Command (NORAD) is the most important one, and we provide the deputy commander and many of the staff. Our Air Force responds to threats to North American, not just Canadian airspace. We are already involved with the system you seem to dislike, as NORAD will provide targeting data to the BMD’s interceptor missiles regarding any incoming missile target. Frequently those will be Canadian officers at NORAD’s headquarters passing on that critical information. My friend, if you aim the rifle at a deer and someone else pulls the trigger, you share the meat.?E

Him: ?EI don’t care what you say, the polls are showing the majority of Canadians are against us getting involved and this is a democracy?E

Me: ?ESure the polls show a close race and that result emerged from a question like, ?EAre you in favour of joining the U.S. in its expensive and unproven ballistic missile defence program??EResult: 50/50. Think if the question was, ‘The U.S., NATO, Japan, Britain, Australia, Russia, France, Israel, and Denmark are all cooperating with the implementation of a ballistic missile system that you won’t see, won’t pay for and won’t be based on Canadian soil, but will make you and your family safer. Are you in favour of joining??EI would anticipate a dramatically different result.

Him: “I still say we would be safer without a bunch of nuclear interceptors out there in space?E

Me: “Actually, nuclear weapons are banned in space and they aren’t very effective out there anyway. It's space! The interceptors will not have explosive war heads. They will destroy incoming missiles with kinetic energy, like a head-on car collision. The interceptors will be launched from land or sea where they are obviously easier to service, upgrade and control.

Him: “Yeah, but haven’t all the tests failed??E

Me: “That’s why you test, to perfect the system. Do you really think that a nation which sent men to the moon in 1969 and can put a cruise missile through the bathroom window of a house 1,000 kilometres away will fail to perfect a system to track and hit an incoming warhead the size of a BMW??E

Aircraft Captain: “Ladies and Gentlemen. We have Calgary in sight. Please place your seat backs in the upright position, fasten your seatbelt and until we have safely come to a full stop at the terminal, try to stop arguing with the person seated beside you, particularly the two of you in 13 A and B. After all, we are Canadians?E


Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, now retired, commanded UN troops during the Bosnian civil war of 1992.

This article is presented here with the kind permission of the author. It also appears in the 29 Dec 04 issue of The Globe and Mail.



who fucking cares what some idiot in the army thinks about the whole matter. That would be like taking the advice of bulldozer operator on a major decision in your engineering company. He is just paid muscle or in this case a bullet recepticle who cares what he has to think?

Naturally, those in the army are supportive of the whole matter. The armed forces is by nature one of the most rascist, unprogressive and closed minded canadian instituions. I should now i was there for a summer. I remember once being drilled on potential threats of nuclear attack from nations like russia. I was like " umm sir the cold war is over you know?"

"Give me 20 private lavell I dont want anymore of this school talk in my unit!"


Ya great people to take advice from.
While we are it i know some people up at the lumber mill who might be able to provide some insight into Natural resource management

hahahhaha

Old Post Feb-25-2005 02:33  Canada
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swilly
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: All power to the Ojibway Soviets!!

quote:
Originally posted by ShadoWolf
I suppse you would support the PRC if it attacked the U.S?



I wouldnt support china but I wouldnt support the US if it attacked china ethier.

whats your point?

Let me rephrase I bet you would support the US if it decided to invade haiti?

Old Post Feb-25-2005 02:37  Canada
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

look this isn't a big freakin deal.

If it works, fine, we have more security.

If it doesn't, well science is all the better for it.

I really view this as just one big scientific fund...


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Old Post Feb-25-2005 03:49  Israel
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
look this isn't a big freakin deal.

If it works, fine, we have more security.

If it doesn't, well science is all the better for it.

I really view this as just one big scientific fund...


why not put that money into researching something that would actually be useful instead?

Old Post Feb-25-2005 04:20  Europe
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > martin tells the Yanks to stick the missile shield up thier arse
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