quote:

Originally posted by malek huh, now you got it wrong... don't you remember influential american muslim clerics condemning the 9/11 attacks ? Or condemnations coming from every head of state of muslim countries (except Irak)... the problem is that your media in the US don't talk about it.

No josh's problem is that he thinks every Muslim supports bin Laden...

Why is silence support?


fatwah

n : (Islam) a legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar; "bin Laden issued three fatwahs calling upon Muslims to take up arms against the United States"

Good example.

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Well what I'd say is that to most Musilms it is fairly obvious that bin laden is not acting on behalf of their religion(be as everything he does is in conflict with it, as taught by most people). Thats maybe not so obvious to you but thats your problem not thiers.

If I were Christian would you want me to send a letter to every gay in the world just to show I wasn't an extremist?

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

quote:

Originally posted by malek huh, now you got it wrong... don't you remember influential american muslim clerics condemning the 9/11 attacks ? Or condemnations coming from every head of state of muslim countries (except Irak)... the problem is that your media in the US don't talk about it.

Heads of state will typically offer condolences and denounce attacks because it is of their country's interest, not because of genuine concern. They didn't want to be seen as an enemy so they quickly put up statements.

I think that in this case at least the top muslims should denounce Bin Laden as a show of support that Muslims aren't for his cause. Bin Laden has made it seem that the entire muslim world is following him and when he issues a call for Jihad against the western world, clerics should step in and say no, we don't want a jihad, and we don't want to follow your twisted religion. Otherwise silence is seen as support for him, especially when he makes calls such as these.

This is different than countries who offer silence, statements, etc because in religion, especially this religion people are such devout followers that they follow edicts from leaders with little though to consequences or their own well being. Such was seen in Iraq with the elections when sunni clerics called for protests and protests happened and now due to their own foolishness they have no say in the government. The same is true with bin laden. He has such clout that when he issues something people follow him and unless high profile clerics step in and say no people will follow his will.

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Good job Nat

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil I think that in this case at least the top muslims should denounce Bin Laden as a show of support that Muslims aren't for his cause.

They have.....

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Bin Laden has made it seem that the entire muslim world is following him and when he issues a call for Jihad against the western world, clerics should step in and say no, we don't want a jihad, and we don't want to follow your twisted religion. Otherwise silence is seen as support for him, especially when he makes calls such as these.

No he hasn't how could he? The American media has however.... and obviously clerics haven't supported Jihad.

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil This is different than countries who offer silence, statements, etc because in religion, especially this religion people are such devout followers that they follow edicts from leaders with little though to consequences or their own well being. Such was seen in Iraq with the elections when sunni clerics called for protests and protests happened and now due to their own foolishness they have no say in the government. The same is true with bin laden. He has such clout that when he issues something people follow him and unless high profile clerics step in and say no people will follow his will.

I think your making Bin Laden sound more important to the average muslim than he is. Foolish young men might think he's a "freedom fighter" but to the average muslim he makes thier life harder, not easier.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

We may as well just assume all muslims are stupid....which they arnt...because they all follow Bin Laden....which they dont...

of course they all don't, that was never assumed. However being the largest religious population on earth combined with a very devout religion based on spiritual figureheads, and what I would call a larger percentage of fundamentalism found than in any other religion on earth, it doesn't take everyone to become a problem. If people see their religious leaders not denouncing what bin laden does, or even just supporting some of the things bin laden talks about, they are so devout that they follow leaders like sheep.

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I don't think so, they are indivual people, with their own thoughts. To 99% of muslims bin laden, in terms of religion, means nothing.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Bin Laden has made it seem that the entire muslim world is following him

The media and ignorant people have made it seem like that...

Typical response.

If OBL goes on tv and asks for a jihad, it is the duty of religious leaders to not call for a jihad or whatever fatwa OBL issues so as to prevent those people who would follow OBL's word and it only takes a small percentage of the largest religous population on earth to form a large following.

Some quotes by Mr. Bin Laden himself:

quote:

"To all the Mujah: Your brothers in Palestine are waiting for you; it's time to penetrate America and Israel and hit them where it hurts the most." "Muslim scholars have issued a fatwa [a religious order] against any American who pays taxes to his government. He is our target because he is helping the American war machine against the Muslim nation." "The [International Front of Islamic Movements, an alliance of extremist organizations created by bin Laden] is an umbrella to all organizations fighting the jihad against Jews and the crusaders. The response from Muslim nations has been greater than we expected. We are urging all of them to start fighting, or at least to start preparing to fight, against the enemies of Islam." "it is the duty of Muslims to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the enemies of God." Under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders," bin Laden endorsed a fatwa, religious decree, to call for the liberation of Muslim holy places in Saudi Arabia and Israel, as well as the death of Americans and their allies. The decree says, "These crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger and Muslims." "We have focused our declaration of jihad on the U.S. soldiers inside Arabia…The U.S. government has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal through its support of the Israeli occupation of Palestine." "This war will not only be between the people of the two sacred mosques and the Americans, but it will be between the Islamic world and the Americans and their allies because this war is a new crusade led by America against the Islamic nations." "Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula." "Our terrorism is a good accepted terrorism because it's against America, it's for the purpose of defeating oppression so America would stop supporting Israel, who is killing our children." "It became very clear that the West in general and America, head of the infidels in particular, bear hate and grudge against Islam and Muslims that cannot be described." "Jihad Is an Individual Duty" The ruling is to kill the Americans and their allies is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it, in order to liberate the Al Aqsa mosque [Jerusalem] and the Holy Mosque [Mecca]... This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God... We call on every Muslim who believes in God and wished to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it.

You get my point, I can dig these up all day.

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