This is very sad to see and very dangerous ground. The electronic music industry in in enough trouble right now mainly due to downloading. Vinyl sales are at a long time low and in serious decline. It's sad that the music industry in general is playing right into the hands of electronics manufacturers who are pushing MP3 players on us like it's the only future for music. Already I know of a few mixers available with 1/8" inputs meant for iPods or any mp3 player. The music industry should be fighting this all the way and have their lawyers on full alert. Its pretty hard to say that a mixer like this wont be used for public performance...

I encourage everyone to fight the future and dont accept DJ's who download music or even play CD's. If we the people demand vinyl, the DJ's and the promoters who book them will have to comply.

I encourage the debate, lets have it!

evb

___________________
Drunken Monkey Promotions
www.blacktigerrecordings.com

"Luddite

A Luddite is a person who fears or loathes technology, especially new forms of technology that threaten existing jobs. During the Industrial Revolution, textile workers in England who claimed to be following the example of a man named Ned Ludd destroyed factory equipment to protest changes in the workplace brought about by labor-saving technology. The term Luddite is derived from Ludd's surname. Today, the term Luddite is reserved for a person who regards technology as causing more harm than good in society, and who behaves accordingly."

from http://whatis.techtarget.com/defini...i883880,00.html

useless piece of info but thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by evb I encourage everyone to fight the future and dont accept DJ's who download music or even play CD's. If we the people demand vinyl, the DJ's and the promoters who book them will have to comply. I encourage the debate, lets have it! evb

There is nothing wrong with playing tracks off CD. I have spent over 10K on vinyl in the past 3 years, and will continue to buy it in the future. I don't own any downloading programs, all of the stuff I play off CD is sent to me by producers or friends. Not playing CDs isnt an option for me anymore, I've only been playing cds for a few months and I love it! It doesn't make any sense to tell people not to 'accept' DJs who play cds, it's obvious which DJs support the music industry and which ones don't.

Ya my post was in no way directed at people who play cd's. My set at tokyo lounge last saturday was playe half from vinyl and half on cd. Of course every track i play off CD is purchased, nothing wrong with that.

there is no way as a DJ i could afford to buy so much vinyl to compete with dj's using CD's. A week ago i got 13 tracks off beatport if i wanted to get all those on vinyl i would have had use a combination of probably 5 diffrent online records stores from around the world, would have to pay 20 times as much, AND i would have to pay for shipping from each of those stores. Hey if i hit the lotto i have no prob doing that but that isnt going to happen.

Last edited by Special_K on Apr-20-2005 at 06:06

My post was relevant to the topic of discussion so your response is off-base.

There have been people on this forum and elsewhere who advocate disabling a DJs CD or computer equipment by pulling out the cables. That is classic Luddism - they want to stop the new machinery and hassle the operators.

And there has been continual flaming at people who use CDs and even worse directed at people using computers.

What it comes down to - is that some people are not only concerned with the music and event but think that a DJ needs to be seen as operating a visibly mechanical and complex device, something that ideally looks like a music instrument in some way. There are skills required to operate CD decks, and a computer too, but those don't look mechanical and skill-demanding in the same way as musical instruments or even turntables. You're not making the arm and and hand movements that we've been conditioned to expect of anyone who is working with music.

The iPod / mixer system in the first post is really another example of this outdated idea where you still try to make things look at least a little bit mechanical and complex. But you really don't need iPods sticking out for everyone to see and you don't even need CD decks at all. In fact they just make the handling and storage of the music media more complex and error-prone. All you need storage-wise is to put the music on a computer hard drive. But computers do not look "legitimate" to someone who wants to see a "real" musician and something like a guitar, or at least a DJ using vinyl.

quote:

Originally posted by Special_K useless piece of info but thanks.

I'm fine with playing CD's (originals paid for or unreleased stuff, but playing out crappy MP3's is just wrong. It's second rate sound and crowds shouldn't have to listen too it.

quote:

someone who wants to see a "real" musician and something like a guitar, or at least a DJ using vinyl.

yes, actually I think that pretty much everyone here wants this. There is something very satisfying about watching a DJ place a needle on a record and skillfully play the deck like an instrument.

It's not about anyone here fearing technology.In fact alot of us here are technology "geeks". Speaking for myself, as the owner of a record label, I am saddened that illegal downloading, that I know so many people and DJ's are doing, is seriously hurting the music industry, record shops, music distributors, etc. I know that most of the TA DJ's here are of the highest standard and pay for their tracks. I agree that cd decks are great for playing unreleased material, but even I wait for my own label releases on vinyl, for the sake of the show and because thats the standard I have set for myself. I know many DJs who agree and many who dont, so make your own choices but remember that DJing is primarily (but not exclusivly) an entertainment industry and music is mainly brought to you by record labels that are businesses and need your purchases to continue to bring you more and better music. I encourage everyone to buy your music and whenever possible play vinyl records.



evb

___________________
Drunken Monkey Promotions
www.blacktigerrecordings.com

To further that... it might shock the hell out of some of the "CD" crowd to find that most of the worlds remaining vinyl manufacturing plants are currently SLAMMED with business.

A downturn in vinyl? well no not really... just a downturn in dance music that we have come to know it as. One has to remember that plants like United Records in Nashville almost exclusively keeps their doors open pressing 10" punk records, everything else for them afterwards is gravy and by all means they are welcome to it along with any other plant that keeps its doors open and provides the best prices they can to small labels like Black Tiger.

The problem here that people seem to keep forgetting is that since the dawn of "Djing" the vinyl record has been and always will be the acid test in terms of establishing commitment to a track or an artist by a record label - who financially backs the manufacturing of a record, promotions for it etc etc, as well as the end all and most important test - a DJ in a store picking it up and buying it or not.

When one removes that "acid test", promo material on CD-R, stolen download or beatport (totally played out catalog by the way... hey, yoou get what you pay for... commercial crap tracks from the EU) purchased music effectively leads to "weaker" or "poor" taste being developed by the person buying the music. Why? Well, it's really easy to blow 30 bucks on 10 tracks that are "so so" and not really think about it. You will find yourself playing just about anything with a beat so long as it's not total garbage.... Meanwhile, vinyl DJs are still out there in force being serviced by great, but otherwise compeltely unknown labels from artists you have never heard of and getting the wickedest matieral currently available, but only available on vinyl - and for that exclusivity factor, vinyl DJs have always been willing to pay for it while spending their money wisely. this is the big difference here!

If that "beatport track" is so kick ass, then why isn't it on 12"? Maybe because its not worth that kind of investment after the label putting it out has effectively alienated itself from the vinyl buyers out there with a string of major disappointments? This is exactly that happened to hooj choons, and almost took out other labels like Nukleuz, totally destroyed distributors like Prime and chains like Groovetech. Shitty music buyers tying to play it ultra-safe with their releases for sale or distribution basically leads to pissed of vinyl DJs and pooof... there goes your label. Still, it was the labels and artists out there who fell asleep at the wheel and played things way to conservatively in terms of productions and zigging when they should have zagged.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

My preference would be half cds and half vinyl. I think vinyl is nice especially for your fav tracks or classics that you will keep forever, and to follow the tradition of the whole thing. I think cdrs are great because they are easier to carry around and because sometimes you want a track asap! And you don't want to spend $15 on a track that is a fad track. Paying a few bucks sounds better to me.

Trevor and the whole "let's keep pushing for people to buy vinyl" thing sounds odd. That's like hearing a car salesman saying hey why don't you buy this ferrari?! And if you don't you aren't a real driver! Well that's great if you can afford it -- but if I can't I will buy the economy car because I still want to DRIVE for god sakes! It can't be fair for you to have to buy a whole heap of vinyl all for full price just to start up and get respect as a "real" dj. Maybe the world would be a better place if it were like that but not everyone has a few grand to drop on vinyl a couple tech 12s and a mixer.

Music isn't going to die if all djs start using cdrs. If you can't survive on digital download or cd sales then you must not have enough quality singles to make it.

Bottom line if a dj plays vinyl he will probably get a bit more respect for it, but if he plays a mix of the two or all cdrs you can't get mad at him for it because it's his decision and it has to do with money not with trying to break tradition. Just relax and give his/her music a chance. And you can call him cheap for not buying vinyl but just wait someday you might see mr cdr dj hopping into his red ferrari after the bar and you might be goin home in your pinto cause you spent your life savings on records.....

quote:

yes, actually I think that pretty much everyone here wants this. There is something very satisfying about watching a DJ place a needle on a record and skillfully play the deck like an instrument.

Saying that a turntable is more of an "instrument" than a pioneer cdj unit is like saying that a banjo is more of an instrument than an electric guitar!

You have to beatmatch (or "play the deck") on a cdj too! There is only so much you can do with a needle. I mean in both situations you are doing a lot of work with the mixer anyways.

Everyone loves turntables but you can't be this resistant to new technology! Think of the genre of music we are talking about here!!

When you produce your own tracks do you go into the studio with a piano, a flute and a drum set????? I doubt it. You use a keyboard-type setup which is for production what the cdj's are for dj'ing. Or wait, maybe you use just production software on your PC. So hey that's almost for production what the ipod decks are for dj'ing. Weird to think about isn't it?

I don't want to see Ferry play in edmonton this weekend on ipod decks either trust me!!! But what can you do that's how evolution of technology goes -- and if you get left behind you just end up one day as an old grandpa sayin "back in my day we used....blah blah blah....."

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium When one removes that "acid test", promo material on CD-R, stolen download or beatport (totally played out catalog by the way... hey, yoou get what you pay for... commercial crap tracks from the EU) purchased music effectively leads to "weaker" or "poor" taste being developed by the person buying the music. Why? Well, it's really easy to blow 30 bucks on 10 tracks that are "so so" and not really think about it. You will find yourself playing just about anything with a beat so long as it's not total garbage.... Meanwhile, vinyl DJs are still out there in force being serviced by great, but otherwise compeltely unknown labels from artists you have never heard of and getting the wickedest matieral currently available, but only available on vinyl - and for that exclusivity factor, vinyl DJs have always been willing to pay for it while spending their money wisely. this is the big difference here! If that "beatport track" is so kick ass, then why isn't it on 12"? Maybe because its not worth that kind of investment after the label putting it out has effectively alienated itself from the vinyl buyers out there with a string of major disappointments?

Maybe, but not for all genres. Psytrance is almost only released on CD. Only the more mainstream psy seems to come out on vinyl, Infected Mushroom etc.. If it is the case that the tunes you want to play are only available on CD, I can't see the problem with using CDJ's. It also makes it eaiser for small time producers to play out their tunes, not uncommon at all back in Oz (in the psy scene)