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Originally posted by Yoepus There is a lot of oil in Africa. Your ignorance is equivalent to that you accuse of your americans.

+1


Nigeria for starters

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Economy Main article: Economy of Nigeria The oil-rich Nigerian economy, long hobbled by political instability, corruption, and poor macroeconomic management, is undergoing substantial economic reform under the new civilian administration. Nigeria's former military rulers failed to diversify the economy away from overdependence on the capital-intensive oil sector, which provides 20% of GDP, 95% of foreign exchange earnings, and about 65% of budgetary revenues. The largely subsistence agricultural sector has not kept up with rapid population growth, and Nigeria, once a large net exporter of food, now must import food. Mineral resources include petroleum, coal and tin. Agricultural products include groundnuts, palm oil, cocoa, citrus Fruits, maize, millet, cassava, yams and sugar cane. Although it has gained notoriety for such a trade, Nigeria is home to the majority of advance fee fraud scammers. It is estimated that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 scammers operate out of Nigeria, although many are found elsewhere in the world. Advance fee fraud, also known as "419" after the section of the Nigerian legal code that deals with it, typically accounts for a large majority of all money transfers to the region, and plays a sizable role in the economics of key cities such as Lagos. While in recent years many other countries have had problems with this sort of con, Nigeria remains the center of this type of scam.

The scammers part was a bonus. Learn more about having fun with them here: http://www.stringalongafraudster.com


Additionally

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Top petroleum producing countries (Ordered by amount produced in 2003): * Saudi Arabia (OPEC) * United States * Russia * Iran (OPEC) * Mexico * China * Norway * Canada * United Arab Emirates (U.A.E) (OPEC) * Venezuela (OPEC) * United Kingdom (U.K) * Kuwait (OPEC) * Nigeria (OPEC) (Ordered by amount exported in 2003): * Saudi Arabia (OPEC) * Russia * Norway * Iran (OPEC) * United Arab Emirates (U.A.E) (OPEC) * Venezuela (OPEC) * Kuwait (OPEC) * Nigeria (OPEC) * Mexico * Algeria (OPEC) * Libya (OPEC)

Nigeria made the top producers list, comfortably behind Kuwait and Venezuela. Not too shabby. The fact that they are an OPEC nation should tell you something. Note Algeria and Libya on the top exporters list. African nations the last I checked.

A is A.......i like that.....

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Don't be fooled. They're just replacing one type of debt for another. True devlopment comes from within... everything else just creates dependency.

I can see people's points about aid creating dependancy but I have already posted the EU's criteria for dishing out aid and economic and political reform is a condition for recieving aid so using the dependancy argument to argue against giving aid/assistance simply doesn't wash

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Top petroleum producing countries (Ordered by amount produced in 2003): * Saudi Arabia (OPEC) * United States * Russia * Iran (OPEC) * Mexico * China * Norway * Canada * United Arab Emirates (U.A.E) (OPEC) * Venezuela (OPEC) * United Kingdom (U.K) * Kuwait (OPEC) * Nigeria (OPEC)

Ahhhh so THAT explains the 'special relationship'!!

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Perhaps the goals shouldn't just be giving them money and food, which has been done for over 30 years with no real goal in mind. In situations like Darfur the goal should be to stop the government from supporting a militant organization who burns homes, kills, and rapes citizens. Perhaps then money and food wouldn't be needed for 3.5 million refugees and it could be used towards real needs, like modernizing the african people so they can finally help themselves rather than relying on handouts for the rest of their lives. "More than 315 million Africans live on less than $1 a day. " Well there is the problem right there. Cut tariffs on their exports, give buying incentives, help with business development. They need tangible things that will increase their wages and standard of living. When this comes then they will be able to afford their own food, clothing, medical care, etc.

I agree, you should really tell your president, he seems to have gotten the wrong idea.....

link

We, on the other hand, are trying (in vain) to gather a coalition comitted to providing "a package of debt relief, increased aid and fairer trade." Sounds like a recipe for self dependence to me.

You can't expect jobs to be created in an environment that is hostile to business. Much of Africa is starving because the countries have elected a bunch of "compassionate" left wing politicians intent on nationalizing or controlling any major corporation that sets up shop in their country. South Africa has been getting particularly bad recently. I read a few articles last month about local governments FORCING companies to rehire thousands of laid off workers at unprofitable gold mines...and basically making it illegal to fire anyone in the future. This political "fix" has guaranteed that the business will go under eventually, leaving 100% of it's workers unemployed, rather than the initial 10%. It also reduces the likelihood of future business expansion in the area to 0.00%.

Forget the the fact that thousands of Africans were happily employed, living independent and productive lives...and will now be forced into unemployment and onto the dole. A socialist politician cared about the people...and his heart was in the right place.

That is what really matters, right?

Last edited by Capitalizt on Jun-07-2005 at 13:15

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Originally posted by Capitalizt You can't expect jobs to be created in an environment that is hostile to business. Much of Africa is starving because the countries have elected a bunch of "compassionate" left wing politicians intent on nationalizing or controlling any major corporation that sets up shop in their country. South Africa has been getting particularly bad recently. I read a few articles last month about local governments FORCING companies to rehire thousands of laid off workers at unprofitable gold mines...and basically making it illegal to fire anyone in the future. This political "fix" has guaranteed that the business will go under eventually, leaving 100% of it's workers unemployed, rather than the initial 10%. It also reduces the likelihood of future business expansion in the area to 0.00%. Forget the the fact that thousands of Africans were happily employed, living independent and productive lives...and will now be forced into unemployment and onto the dole. A socialist politician cared about the people...and his heart was in the right place. That is what really matters, right?

Right, I am going to say this AGAIN for the THIRD fucking time...please everybody just LISTEN (or read!)

Aid is given to the African (and Caribean and Pacific) countries with various economic and political criteria. Economic criteria means open economies and political criteria means human rights etc. Why can't people understand?

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Originally posted by sector.30 I agree, you should really tell your president, he seems to have gotten the wrong idea..... link We, on the other hand, are trying (in vain) to gather a coalition comitted to providing "a package of debt relief, increased aid and fairer trade." Sounds like a recipe for self dependence to me.

Another few billion down the drain.

How does the ol' saying go; "give a man a fish and he feeds for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". That pretty much sums up this whole situation.

As often is said on these forums, the world does not revolve the United States, so I would say that other countries should go ahead and push for their own initiatives. There are over 200 countries on this planet that are quite capable of helping out.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Another few billion down the drain. How does the ol' saying go; "give a man a fish and he feeds for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". That pretty much sums up this whole situation. As often is said on these forums, the world does not revolve the United States, so I would say that other countries should go ahead and push for their own initiatives. There are over 200 countries on this planet that are quite capable of helping out.

I'm not quite sure you've got your head round this yet. The UK is not asking the US to do this for us, we are asking the US to do it with us. The US is the richest country in the world by a long shot and I would guess it has the biggest amount of third world debt attatched too. Its like Kyoto, fair enuf we can do it on our own, but the overall aim cannot be acheieved unless America gets involved too. This is even more apparent for debt relief when most of it is (I assume) owed to the US. So you saying the world does not revolve around America or the equally idiotic statement by Yoepus that "Because it proves you Europeans are all talk an no action. If you want something done you go to the USA to get it done." has nothing to do with this plan and is not even close to an arguement against it.

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Originally posted by George Smiley I'm not quite sure you've got your head round this yet. The UK is not asking the US to do this for us, we are asking the US to do it with us. The US is the richest country in the world by a long shot and I would guess it has the biggest amount of third world debt attatched too. Its like Kyoto, fair enuf we can do it on our own, but the overall aim cannot be acheieved unless America gets involved too. This is even more apparent for debt relief when most of it is (I assume) owed to the US. So you saying the world does not revolve around America or the equally idiotic statement by Yoepus that "Because it proves you Europeans are all talk an no action. If you want something done you go to the USA to get it done." has nothing to do with this plan and is not even close to an arguement against it.

Head is quite fine, thank you.

The statement was that people such as yourself like to make it a point that the world doesn't revolve around the US, yet when something is in need, suddenly the world does revolve around the US chipping in.

My point was that, the great EU with it's combined economic power rivaling that of the US should go ahead regardless, and I am sure other moderately weathly countries such as India, China, Japan, Australia, Egypt, SA, Turkey, South Africa, Mexico, etc would be happy to throw in a few million as well. Don't sit on your hands waiting for the US to do something or to join the merry band, this is why things never get achieved.

So to sum it up, who cares if he opposes the plan, live with it and move on and fix the problem yourself. We have enough problems at home to fix, it's bad enough spending billions in iraq but at least it is a means to an end, in this case it is just an infinitly bottomed coffer with no real ultimate goal, at least none that I have seen.

I'd really like to see a well drawn out plan on how to remove africans from poverty once and for all, get their GNP higher, stop the corruptions in the governments, and build deomocratic societies not dependant on foreign aid over the next 20-30 years. If the money being spent is to that end, I'd be happy to shell out my hard earned tax money, until then you can call me a disgruntled American.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Head is quite fine, thank you. The statement was that people such as yourself like to make it a point that the world doesn't revolve around the US, yet when something is in need, suddenly the world does revolve around the US chipping in. My point was that, the great EU with it's combined economic power rivaling that of the US should go ahead regardless, and I am sure other moderately weathly countries such as India, China, Japan, Australia, Egypt, SA, Turkey, South Africa, Mexico, etc would be happy to throw in a few million as well. Don't sit on your hands waiting for the US to do something or to join the merry band, this is why things never get achieved. So to sum it up, who cares if he opposes the plan, live with it and move on and fix the problem yourself. We have enough problems at home to fix, it's bad enough spending billions in iraq but at least it is a means to an end, in this case it is just an infinitly bottomed coffer with no real ultimate goal, at least none that I have seen. I'd really like to see a well drawn out plan on how to remove africans from poverty once and for all, get their GNP higher, stop the corruptions in the governments, and build deomocratic societies not dependant on foreign aid over the next 20-30 years. If the money being spent is to that end, I'd be happy to shell out my hard earned tax money, until then you can call me a disgruntled American.

You still dont understand do you?! This is about America's refusal to accept the DEBT relief proposals...