Someone sticky this!
nice stuff

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quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen but for 'real' instruments its all about vsts/samples, the synths jsut can't compare (mind you some aren't bad)

Anyone else see the irony in this?

Just so you know, "VST" stands for "Virtual Studio Technology".

I'm not sure what you mean by "real" instruments, but if you're talking about accurate recreations of say, orchestral instruments, pianos, guitars, etc., then samplers, not VSTs, are the only way to go. And the best samplers are still hardware, despite the pathetic claims of NI and Steinberg (MOTU MachFive does look sweet but I haven't had the pleasure of using it personally). The best samples are all in Akai and Emu format (Kontakt libraries are nice but IMHO they just don't cut the mustard).

However, electronic music production has never been about "real" sounds. It's about phat, crisp, punchy, atmospheric, catchy or unique sounds. I completely respect your decision to choose VST over hardware - and while there are many compelling reasons to do so, sound quality is simply not one of them. Digital instruments produce sounds that are spot-on but also cold and sterile, unlike traditional analog synths which have *so* much more warmth to them. If you can find a soft synth that comes even close to a Minimoog and a Moogerfooger, I'd love to hear all about it.

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Last edited by DigiNut on Jun-25-2005 at 16:52

quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen sorry to be a hater, but shouldn't most of this info be old news for serious producers? i've already scoped the grounds and found my favorites and stick by that. but for 'real' instruments its all about vsts/samples, the synths jsut can't compare (mind you some aren't bad) i'll admit that the nord lead 3 is one insane mother******...luv that piece of gear (to bad i don't own it lol, but sure was fun in the store)

Hey. I have to disagree .

1) Serious producers are still producers and most producers that like hardware are always after something new and different. Besides that, this guide is geared to those on this forum looking to get into buying hardware or are already buying hardware and need a reference on what they can afford or what is best.

2) I'm not sure who the hell told you softsynths are better than hardware but they should really be slapped until they get thier facts straight . The fact of the matter is, in a digital domain, especially one without a dedicated board that has emulating components (such as on the Access Powercore and EMU Proteus X), its EXTREMELY hard to get a realistic analog sound. There are a few VSTs out there that do a pretty good job but even then, they still cant completely replicate it. Virtual analog synths, such as many of the ones on this forum are much better suited to create a more analog sound because they have actual hardware in them designed to do just that.

Just dont confuse quantity, with VSTs and the quality, coming from hardware .

Cheers,
Zac

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Anyone else see the irony in this? Just so you know, "VST" stands for "Virtual Studio Technology". I'm not sure what you mean by "real" instruments, but if you're talking about accurate recreations of say, orchestral instruments, pianos, guitars, etc., then samplers, not VSTs, are the only way to go. And the best samplers are still hardware, despite the pathetic claims of NI and Steinberg (MOTU MachFive does look sweet but I haven't had the pleasure of using it personally). The best samples are all in Akai and Emu format (Kontakt libraries are nice but IMHO they just don't cut the mustard). However, electronic music production has never been about "real" sounds. It's about phat, crisp, punchy, atmospheric, catchy or unique sounds. I completely respect your decision to choose VST over hardware - and while there are many compelling reasons to do so, sound quality is simply not one of them. Digital instruments produce sounds that are spot-on but also cold and sterile, unlike traditional analog synths which have *so* much more warmth to them. If you can find a soft synth that comes even close to a Moogerfooger, I'd love to hear all about it.

maybe i wasn't clear, sorry. i'm talking about programs like east west symphonic library (which is a sample based program with vst technology to pick the appropriate sample based on the velocity you hit the key and some other variables. the mother of all orchestras is vienna symphonic library, but for $5000 for the full package, that will have to wait. thats just my little tangent, i don't want to hijack the thread lol. so carry on!

great thread there..can't wait for you to finish everything up...two thumbs up to you..

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quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen maybe i wasn't clear, sorry. i'm talking about programs like east west symphonic library (which is a sample based program with vst technology to pick the appropriate sample based on the velocity you hit the key and some other variables. the mother of all orchestras is vienna symphonic library, but for $5000 for the full package, that will have to wait. thats just my little tangent, i don't want to hijack the thread lol. so carry on!

Don't even get me started on East West, Zero G, and all the useless shit they've been putting out lately.

Long story short, all these fancy-pants EW or Quantum Leap packages you're seeing use Intakt for loops, which is a rotten piece of guano, and Kompakt for sampling, which is almost as much of a pleasure to use as a red hot poker up the ass.

The actual quality in these libraries comes from the samples themselves, not the piss-poor mini-samplers that come with them. And the reason I hate them so much is because NI's stupid sample format is obscured and can't be converted to any USEFUL format like Akai or Emu. So if you want to use their stuff, you're stuck using NI's god-awful VSTs.

Big players like East West in the sampling world made their reputations releasing samples in proper format - for hardware samplers. Now, they've gone the way of so many others in the digital world and adopted an inferior technology in the interests of "protecting" their wares. I can understand the need for copy protection, but if I'm going to shell out $500 or more for a disk of samples, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with them!

Thank God there are still guys like Rob Papen keeping it real - and when they do dabble in the digital world, they actually come up with something usable (Albino).

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't even get me started on East West, Zero G, and all the useless shit they've been putting out lately. Long story short, all these fancy-pants EW or Quantum Leap packages you're seeing use Intakt for loops, which is a rotten piece of guano, and Kompakt for sampling, which is almost as much of a pleasure to use as a red hot poker up the ass. The actual quality in these libraries comes from the samples themselves, not the piss-poor mini-samplers that come with them. And the reason I hate them so much is because NI's stupid sample format is obscured and can't be converted to any USEFUL format like Akai or Emu. So if you want to use their stuff, you're stuck using NI's god-awful VSTs. Big players like East West in the sampling world made their reputations releasing samples in proper format - for hardware samplers. Now, they've gone the way of so many others in the digital world and adopted an inferior technology in the interests of "protecting" their wares. I can understand the need for copy protection, but if I'm going to shell out $500 or more for a disk of samples, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with them! Thank God there are still guys like Rob Papen keeping it real - and when they do dabble in the digital world, they actually come up with something usable (Albino).

meh!

its fine. since we're talking real instruments, you dont' need to do a lot to the sound, except stuff after the fact like compression eq reverb etc. when doing synth stuff i'll admit i'm not that big of a fan of kontakt. it can do some cool things, but its not the most user friendly program, at least i think so.

about producing, hardware is the way to go.. definitely..

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This thread would be a waste if no one started posting on it, i say it should be get a sticky, it is valuable information.

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Never thought much of the nord lead 3 but that demo from vegenance sound has changed my mind it's simply feckin awesome. Give it a listen. Now

I strongly recommend adding the Novation K-Station to your list cause it's wonderful. I can give you some comments if you want