Damian Lazarus is a fucking legend

bump, because I think more people need to read what I wrote.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No...here's the thing: All the money is in DJing. The DJs take the haul. Producers don't make very much money unless their track becomes a mega-monster hit, but that's like winning the lottery and hence not something anyone would bank their career or their reputation on, so here's the clincher: By producing, they increase their status and prominence of being a DJ...even if they don't actually DJ. Yes, I said that right: Producing increases your worth and value as a DJ, not a producer. It doesn't make you money, but it improves the potential for you to make money. The scene is fucked up like that. Because the lines between being a DJ and being a Producer are still very much blurred to the casual EDM fan, whose brain is still locked into that "band on stage playing its own tunes" mentality. So when a Producer makes a song that they really like, they go to the "concert" at the club starring the "producer" so they can hear him "DJ" his own songs. Many full-time producers (Above & Beyond, Gabriel & Dresden, Deep Dish come immediately to mind) have become DJs within the last 6 years because 1) That's where the money is. The big ones command up to $10,000 or more for a two-hour set, which is more money than 6 months of aggressive promotion and marketing and caning a track in the studio will ever make. And 2) To push their own productions, trying to make up expenses for those 6 months of aggressive promotion and marketing and caning a track in the studio. It increases their exposure as producers, not DJs. 3) The money that's made from a track isn't technically theirs anyway. It's the labels. But a DJ gig? That's all private spending cash. Check out the annual "TOP DJs" lists released (either Mixmag, TA, thedjlist, doesn't matter), and you'll see, continuously, completely idiotic or inane names make the list based on people's affections for a single song. As if everyone who makes a song is automatically an excellent DJ. And then there are the aliases. I remember seeing Kumaya Painters on one of those lists. WTF!? That's Tiesto, you dummies. Stop doing that. So yeah: Producing makes you a more popular DJ, but you are DJing to push your productions. Lazarus makes a good point about how fucked up this is. It's true: Most DJs who become producers don't really know anything about music and simply hire audio engineers and musicians to make their music for them. And most producers who become DJs aren't very good at DJing and are only there to plug their own music.

I agree, deejaying does push up your stock tremendously for a producer especially if he/she has made a good tune.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No...here's the thing: All the money is in DJing. The DJs take the haul. Producers don't make very much money unless their track becomes a mega-monster hit, but that's like winning the lottery and hence not something anyone would bank their career or their reputation on, so here's the clincher: By producing, they increase their status and prominence of being a DJ...even if they don't actually DJ. Yes, I said that right: Producing increases your worth and value as a DJ, not a producer. It doesn't make you money, but it improves the potential for you to make money. The scene is fucked up like that. Because the lines between being a DJ and being a Producer are still very much blurred to the casual EDM fan, whose brain is still locked into that "band on stage playing its own tunes" mentality. So when a Producer makes a song that they really like, they go to the "concert" at the club starring the "producer" so they can hear him "DJ" his own songs. Many full-time producers (Above & Beyond, Gabriel & Dresden, Deep Dish come immediately to mind) have become DJs within the last 6 years because 1) That's where the money is. The big ones command up to $10,000 or more for a two-hour set, which is more money than 6 months of aggressive promotion and marketing and caning a track in the studio will ever make. And 2) To push their own productions, trying to make up expenses for those 6 months of aggressive promotion and marketing and caning a track in the studio. It increases their exposure as producers, not DJs. 3) The money that's made from a track isn't technically theirs anyway. It's the labels. But a DJ gig? That's all private spending cash. Check out the annual "TOP DJs" lists released (either Mixmag, TA, thedjlist, doesn't matter), and you'll see, continuously, completely idiotic or inane names make the list based on people's affections for a single song. As if everyone who makes a song is automatically an excellent DJ. And then there are the aliases. I remember seeing Kumaya Painters on one of those lists. WTF!? That's Tiesto, you dummies. Stop doing that. So yeah: Producing makes you a more popular DJ, but you are DJing to push your productions. Lazarus makes a good point about how fucked up this is. It's true: Most DJs who become producers don't really know anything about music and simply hire audio engineers and musicians to make their music for them. And most producers who become DJs aren't very good at DJing and are only there to plug their own music.

I remember one guy tried to argue with me about this, saying that productions represented a steady bleed of income, and thus were ultimately more profitable than the lump sum of a DJ gig. He had a degree in "Marketing" to assist him in this spectacular failure of logic.

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well said ish.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur I remember seeing Kamaya Painters on one of those lists. WTF!? That's Tiesto

+ Benno De Goeij, couldn't let that slide. Great post.

Ya for sure good one Ishkur. For people who produce full time I don't blame them for wanting to do gigs to supplement their income. That just makes sense as long as they're competent.

“I find it quite annoying when a great producer decides that he or she can go out and make a bigger name for themselves by going out and DJing to support their production work, because I feel that I spent a lot of years trying to be a successful DJ, and for someone to come along and just make one big record and start taking gigs that I could potentially be doing, I find that quite annoying,” he explains.

Don't really understand that point. I think people will always naturally favour those DJ's who actually make their own tracks since they are adding to the amount of music in the scene.

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quote:

Originally posted by Numidia Ya for sure good one Ishkur. For people who produce full time I don't blame them for wanting to do gigs to supplement their income. That just makes sense as long as they're competent. “I find it quite annoying when a great producer decides that he or she can go out and make a bigger name for themselves by going out and DJing to support their production work, because I feel that I spent a lot of years trying to be a successful DJ, and for someone to come along and just make one big record and start taking gigs that I could potentially be doing, I find that quite annoying,” he explains. Don't really understand that point. I think people will always naturally favour those DJ's who actually make their own tracks since they are adding to the amount of music in the scene.

I agree with you. The reason why I disagreed with that quote that you pointed out is that producers deserve more money than they are making. It's unfair that DJs make exponentially more money than the producers while it seems the producers are doing all of the dirty work for the DJs. If a producer wants a shot on the decks, so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by flavdave I agree with you. The reason why I disagreed with that quote that you pointed out is that producers deserve more money than they are making. It's unfair that DJs make exponentially more money than the producers while it seems the producers are doing all of the dirty work for the DJs. If a producer wants a shot on the decks, so be it.

The problem is that the producers who are shit behind the decks are still more successful than the actual good djs. If bad djs were invariably booed offstage, as they probably should be, then things would balance out, but instead the producer cum djs are lauded above all others regardless of their skills. And in the end, it hurts the music on both sides.

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