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(and boy, your sardonic attitude is not appreciated)

I am not a boy I am a man

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these low-end jobs would be forced to pay better and be more fair even if an immigrant were the one to fill the position.

These low-end jobs are what keep some American Companies competitive with other countries who have cheap labor.

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I won't even get into the cultural problems they can also create.

whats wrong with mexicans? they are devote catholics and loyal to their families. Its not the Meicans who fear americans its the americans who fear mexicans. No mexicans arent going to make spanish the national language. Has any previous group such as the Italians done that? They will assilmulate into the american culture might not be teh first or second generation but eventually they will.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid I am not a boy I am a man

Congrats

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These low-end jobs are what keep some American Companies competitive with other countries who have cheap labor.

Still illegal, and it still is no benefit to that person working. Like I said, I'm not willing to bend or break the rules so that someone can work under that table for under minimum wage. I realize that they may come from dire conditions, but that is still no excuse for them to come into the country illegally and get a job illegally.

Also, illegal immigration is not the answer for companies to stay in business in competition with other markets.

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whats wrong with mexicans? they are devote catholics and loyal to their families. Its not the Meicans who fear americans its the americans who fear mexicans. No mexicans arent going to make spanish the national language. Has any previous group such as the Italians done that? They will assilmulate into the american culture might not be teh first or second generation but eventually they will.

What did I say about Mexicans?

My "cultural" problem with illegal immigration can be seen either as real or intangible, but it is still a problem. Many illegal immigrants come into this country to work and send money back to their families. They have no intention of assimilating or finding any niche within the society other than leech (pardon my bluntness).

It is one thing for a citizen of another country to come here, set up a residence and try to blend with the existing culture, while maintaining their own. I really don't see that with illegal immigrants. They come, set up their neighborhoods and have very little interaction with the surrounding community.

I don't mean to be alarmist or over-simplify the situation, but if you look at the fall of some of the greatest nation-states throughout history, you will see a common trend; a loss of central identity. The Romans did a wonderful job for a while of maintaining a central culture, but as they grew and more peoples immigrated but did not disperse, you had a fracture of the empire set upon these cultural lines along with an apathy towards the whole.

To me language is of central concern when it comes to this national identity. I have no problem with people that are able to speak different languages, or even those who do not speak English the majority of the time. However, when you have people that refuse to learn a common language, you not only make it difficult to communicate effectively, you also remove the ability of people to share basic feelings and concerns...only further alienating those groups.

It amazes me how often people are forced to defend themselves whenever the subject of immigration is mentioned, its gotten to the point where you can't even speak about the subject without being labelled racist, xenophobic, etc. Shame on someone for giving a damn about who enters their nation and the impact of that on their future. I seen no entitlements for those who enter or want to enter this nation illegally. As an immigrant I realize the commitments and contributions many who come here have made to this nation over history but where is it written that people cannot protect their borders from unfettered, illegal immigration, especially in this day and age.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

well u see i just wanted to see whether neophone was right or wrong. Or whether he was going to go bashing illegal immigrants because they were mexicans. I 'll admit i thought neophone had something for mexicans. Most ppl think most mexicans don't want to be a part of this nation.

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don't mean to be alarmist or over-simplify the situation, but if you look at the fall of some of the greatest nation-states throughout history, you will see a common trend; a loss of central identity.

oh oh by 2025 the language most spoken in the US will be spanish. time for concern? but don't you think the media is overdoing it with illegal immigration? Besides neophone what would you do as president to protect the bordor? You not only have a large hispanic group "la raza" that will become extremly angry by protecting the bordor but you also have the ALCU that will most likely be againsnt teh idea. So tell me what is your idea to fix this problem??

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan It amazes me how often people are forced to defend themselves whenever the subject of immigration is mentioned, its gotten to the point where you can't even speak about the subject without being labelled racist, xenophobic, etc. Shame on someone for giving a damn about who enters their nation and the impact of that on their future. I seen no entitlements for those who enter or want to enter this nation illegally. As an immigrant I realize the commitments and contributions many who come here have made to this nation over history but where is it written that people cannot protect their borders from unfettered, illegal immigration, especially in this day and age.

well when ur talkin about a country that was basically formed from inmigrants, and that applies to all countries in the american continent, then u have to be a little more flexible as you are deniyng now the priveliges(sp?) that got most people that live in the american country here in the first place imo.

Last edited by venomX on Jul-10-2005 at 05:33

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid well u see i just wanted to see whether neophone was right or wrong. Or whether he was going to go bashing illegal immigrants because they were mexicans. I 'll admit i thought neophone had something for mexicans. Most ppl think most mexicans don't want to be a part of this nation.

No, I have nothing against Mexicans. I do have something against illegal immigrants that wish to come to this country to use it strictly to their advantage. If you come by legal means, "set up shop," and pay into the system you wish to benefit from, then more power to you. However, if you wish to come to this country, work illegally, not pay taxes, send the money you make out of the country and expect to recieve entitlements and my approval, it isn't going to happen.

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oh oh by 2025 the language most spoken in the US will be spanish. time for concern? but don't you think the media is overdoing it with illegal immigration? Besides neophone what would you do as president to protect the bordor? You not only have a large hispanic group "la raza" that will become extremly angry by protecting the bordor but you also have the ALCU that will most likely be againsnt teh idea. So tell me what is your idea to fix this problem??

Yes, it is time for concern. When we reach the point that half the country can no longer communicate to the other in even the most basic terms, you have the recipie for disaster.

As far as what I would do? First, I would tell those interest groups to blow it out their ass. It's not always easy or popular to do what is right, but a president is not in office to bend to the will of the most vocal, he's there to do what is in the best interest of the country and the constitution. Second, I'd make English the official language. As I have stated before, the ability to communicate with your countrymen is critical. I urge you to find a large nation where there is a smooth, peaceful co-existance of people speaking two different languages in great numbers. Third, I would tighten up the borders. I know this is not an easy undertaking, but it has to be done. Through technology or sheer manpower the loose sive that is our border must be sealed. Lastly, and probably most controversally, there needs to be real repercussions against those that try to illegally immigrate. Whether it is detention centers or some other means of punishment, it has to be different than today's alternatives of either you make it in illegally or you just get sent home to try again.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono No, I have nothing against Mexicans. I do have something against illegal immigrants that wish to come to this country to use it strictly to their advantage. If you come by legal means, "set up shop," and pay into the system you wish to benefit from, then more power to you. However, if you wish to come to this country, work illegally, not pay taxes, send the money you make out of the country and expect to recieve entitlements and my approval, it isn't going to happen.

So anyone that doesn't pay taxes is doing something illegal huh?

You might as well think like this:

"You must have been doing something wrong for you to get arrested."

Hard Evidence That Form 1040 Has NO Legal Basis Read the second to last post on the last page that I left.

Joe Banister: He Challenged The Income Tax And Withholding Laws -- And He Won

You'd better get yourself in gear if you think you know what's best for you. You're loaning out interest free money and yet you complain about people that don't pay taxes.

Did you also know that your tax dollars go to other countries to fund either their war machine or industrial programs?

Tough break defending a system that systematically robs it's people of their hard earned wages.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 So anyone that doesn't pay taxes is doing something illegal huh? You might as well think like this: "You must have been doing something wrong for you to get arrested." Hard Evidence That Form 1040 Has NO Legal Basis Read the second to last post on the last page that I left. Joe Banister: He Challenged The Income Tax And Withholding Laws -- And He Won You'd better get yourself in gear if you think you know what's best for you. You're loaning out interest free money and yet you complain about people that don't pay taxes. Did you also know that your tax dollars go to other countries to fund either their war machine or industrial programs? Tough break defending a system that systematically robs it's people of their hard earned wages.

You're absolutely right. Everyone stop paying their taxes, because it "robs people of their wages." Is anarchy really an option for you? If not, what do you propose should fund the government and its various programs if we are to stop paying taxes?

You see the thing that really saddens me about our current situation on immigration here in the US. Is that no one asks how the Native Americans feel about the white man in their land.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono You're absolutely right. Everyone stop paying their taxes, because it "robs people of their wages." Is anarchy really an option for you? If not, what do you propose should fund the government and its various programs if we are to stop paying taxes?

You want to argue about it then take it off this thread.

@metalgearsolid:
You got a good point there.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid You see the thing that really saddens me about our current situation on immigration here in the US. Is that no one asks how the Native Americans feel about the white man in their land.

How does that have any bering on the United States and its illegal immigrant situation? What exactly is the statue of limitations on ownership issues? There were battles fought over 200 years ago that put that matter to rest. Should Australia be given back to the Aborigonees, or have their immigration policy determined by them? Should the entire continent of Africa be given back to the tribes that still live there?

The only thing that matters at this point is how the United States and her citizens decide to deal with illegal immigration. Native Americans and their property rights really have no merit in this debate.