quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z are you a UT Student/Alumini Yoepus?

Yup, graduated a year ago.

Are you at UT?

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quote:

Originally posted by Shizane2002 Come on dude....youre overestimated an inferior aircraft.

Umm, SU-27 is one of the best tactical fighters out there, generally better than the US ones.

quote:

The Iraqi Air Force had all Soviet type tactical fighters. And most of their pilots were trained by a few Iraqis who were once in Americas Air Force. They still were victim to the gruesome superiority of our aircraft systems and pilot training. We dont have the best air force in the world for nothing.

Yes, but comparing Iraq with China is kinda like comparing UK with Bosnia. The fact that they had 4th largest military in the world (let's say that the info is factual) doesn't really mean much since at the time there was a huge gap between the armies of the US and USSR and the rest of the world.

quote:

Their air force would be an initial threat, but after a campaigne to gain air superiority over China, their 1 million man army would be like little prarie dogs for our pilots to target. Once air superiority is gained, China wouldnt stand a chance.

They couldn't wage an offensive war, but they could certainly mount sufficient defences to stand a pretty good chance of thwarting off the US ground attacks.

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The flanker is good, but it's not much better than the F-15 in that it's a 20 year old airframe. It might hold it's own against f-14s, f-15s, f-16s, and super hornets, but it would be blown away by an f-22, f-35, or any fifth generation air-superiority fighter. In building the Eurofighter, Britain's Defence Evaluation and Research Agency did mock simulations of air combat of different weapons systems against the SU-35 super flanker, and this was the result:


http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.u...ghter/tech.html

Essentially the F-22 had a kill ratio of 10:1. This is, in part due to the fact that the F-22 isn't even designed to engage in dogfighting. In a recent simulation, a solitary F-22 squared off against 5 F-15Cs:

quote:

Secretary of the Air Force Dr. James G. Roche held a press conference before a static display of both aircraft May 14 following opening ceremonies of the three-day Joint Service Open House. "We're way ahead of where people expected us to be," Secretary Roche said of the Raptor's initial operational test evaluation trials. The secretary used the results of a recent combat simulation to describe the Raptor's capabilities. "We had five F-15 Eagles against one Raptor," he said. "The engagement was over in three minutes. None of the F-15s even saw the Raptor. The Raptor simply went down the line and, in simulation, took out all five of the F-15s." One reporter asked if the simulations were fair, since the F/A-22 pilots had previously flown the F-15. "They never get into dogfights, so it makes no difference," said Secretary Roche. "The fact that [the Raptor] flies very high, very stealthy and at [Mach 1.6] without afterburner makes it very tough for anybody else to have a fire-control solution. The F-15s, with very good radars, were not able to pick up and understand where the F/A-22s were, and the F/A-22 was looking at the F-15s all the time." http://www.dcmilitary.com/airforce/...es/29191-1.html

Dare I even ask how many super flankers China has at its disposal? Since it only has approximately less than a hundred flankers (much less super flankers), I'm not entirely sure what kind of threat their air force constitutes:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china...plaaf-equip.htm

As for ground threats, I'm anxiously looking forward to seeing what the x-45 or X-47 are capable of:




Their air force is not much of a threat imo. A ground campaign on the other hand would be quite different and would depend on how much collateral damage is acceptable.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Jul-18-2005 at 03:28

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yup, graduated a year ago. Are you at UT?

Cool. Yeah, I'm a senior. Still have a while before I graduate though. You still in Austin man? Armin and Oakey are spinning in San Antonio the 20th of this month. Can't wait to see em play.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Yay, time to rise from hibernation once more!!

Re: Flanker, occrider has it nailed on the head. Moongoose, pilot skill and plane manouverability (sp?) is like... a 10% factor in deciding air superiority, if even that. As occrider has indicated, modern air battles are all done pretty much from beyond visual range (there's a military term for that phrase but I forgot). Ah right, "BVR" (duh). Basically find the "bogeys" on radar and fire a long-range AMRAAM or something.

So what is more important than manouverability is target acquisition, range, stealth/lock avoidance, and generally internal computer system capabilities. I bet in a future modern air battle (pray it never happens), most of the fight will be done without the [US] pilots ever seeing the opposing force, except for on their radar screens before the little blips go out.

EDIT: occrider, it sounds like you're implying the F22 was expressly not designed to dogfight, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Just looking at the airframe design gives one the impression that it does have the capability to hold one's own in a dogfight... simulation experience (from DID's realistic F22 ADF simulation/game) confirms this, whatever weight this might have. Plus, consider the thrust-vector maneouvering capabilities of the fighter, that definitely shows it's designed with dogfighting in mind. Furthermore, it's supposed to be a general fighter/bomber platform, a jack-of-all-trades like the F15. Of course, it's not as maneouverable as some Russian planes (like the flanker I believe) nor the Eurofighter (it being fly-by-wire), or even the F16 IIRC (it also being fly-by-wire). But that's not to say it can't dogfight. Anyway just food for thought.

Last edited by Alccode on Jul-26-2005 at 03:10

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode EDIT: occrider, it sounds like you're implying the F22 was expressly not designed to dogfight, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Just looking at the airframe design gives one the impression that it does have the capability to hold one's own in a dogfight... simulation experience (from DID's realistic F22 ADF simulation/game) confirms this, whatever weight this might have. Plus, consider the thrust-vector maneouvering capabilities of the fighter, that definitely shows it's designed with dogfighting in mind. Furthermore, it's supposed to be a general fighter/bomber platform, a jack-of-all-trades like the F15. Of course, it's not as maneouverable as some Russian planes (like the flanker I believe) nor the Eurofighter (it being fly-by-wire), or even the F16 IIRC (it also being fly-by-wire). But that's not to say it can't dogfight. Anyway just food for thought.

No I'm not saying that it can't dogfight, I'm sure that they had dogfighting in mind when designing the plane. I'm simply saying that the plane was engineered more for stealth and speed as opposed to dogfighting alone. Thus other 5th generation fighters may be more manuverable than the f-22. I didn't think it had an air/ground element to it. I thought it was simply an air superiority figther while the f-35 had the ground pounding capabilities.

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Retro ...

I thought fuzzies came from Japan...or is that furries...

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quote:

Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

Question for Occrider:

Just out of curiosity, why do have Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (Baghdad Bob) in your avatar?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

OK, I just did a google search and I think I know why. Godammit! Now I'm gonna crack up every time I read any of your posts!

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

if China gets thier hands on these we will be screwed.
















http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/

Last edited by metalgearsolid on Jul-30-2005 at 17:02

Last edited by metalgearsolid on Jul-30-2005 at 17:02

are the images not working?