Not really just a thought. I mean it seems to work only one way.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan What is freedom of speech without responsibility when others use that right to threaten the broader society as a whole.

That, my friend, is a mouthful, and totally dead on.

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The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

why werent these measures introduced for the BNP?

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I think this is a disgrace to democracy. If we ban ppl from saying stuff like this, then why start wars to defend our "freedoms"?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r That, my friend, is a mouthful, and totally dead on.

Truly sickening that the freedom of speech of these people are deemed to be at stake while some blame Blair's policy for the bombs and don't even look twice at the perpetrators actions, as some of these comments show what kind of individuals are under scrutiny.

"Omar Bakri Mohammed is a London-based cleric for the al-Muhajiroun group. Mr Bakri caused controversy when he said he would not inform police if he knew Muslims were planning a bomb attack in the UK.

British-born Abu Izzadeen, a spokesman for the group al-Ghurabaa (the Strangers) has declined to condemn the 7 July London bombings.

He told BBC2's Newsnight the bombings were "mujahideen activity" which would make people "wake up and smell the coffee".

Abu Uzair, a former member of al-Muhajiroun, told the same programme that the September 11 attacks in the US were "magnificent".

He said Muslims had previously accepted a "covenant of security" which meant they should not resort to violence in the UK because they were not under threat there.

"We don't live in peace with you any more, which means the covenant of security no longer exists," he said"

Accepted a covenant of security my ass, we don't live in peace with you any more, who is the WE that he speaks of (intolerant Islamists). I don't give a shit if you are white, black, Indian, etc, when you resort to killing innocent people or advocating it you have crossed a boundary. I already see the Lib Dems in Britain saying that they couldn't be counted on to support any policy by Blair as presented, what will they support frankly, nothing being done about these individuals who have no respect for British society and laws. Its the old saying you have to give respect to get it, I will respect their rights to freedom of speech when they respect the right of innocent people to exist in their society who had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. If the war in Iraq is dead wrong, what makes the killing of British citizens on British soil okay in the eyes of these individuals. Sadly those who share the same views like Omar Bakri will always have their defenders who make them out to somehow be the victims, here you have a cleric saying he wouldn't inform on a potential bomber in the UK, imagine what he preaches in the mosques. Sick.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by raydn I think its about time we stoped paying them benifits and kicked them out of the UK

What about the decent Muslims who grew up & were born in the UK as well? British-born Muslims. If they're decent people and don't harm society (and society only benefits from them), why not allow them to stay there?

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I don't give a shit if you are white, black, Indian, etc, when you resort to killing innocent people or advocating it you have crossed a boundary. I already see the Lib Dems in Britain saying that they couldn't be counted on to support any policy by Blair as presented, what will they support frankly, nothing being done about these individuals who have no respect for British society and laws. Its the old saying you have to give respect to get it, I will respect their rights to freedom of speech when they respect the right of innocent people to exist in their society who had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. If the war in Iraq is dead wrong, what makes the killing of British citizens on British soil okay in the eyes of these individuals. Sadly those who share the same views like Omar Bakri will always have their defenders who make them out to somehow be the victims, here you have a cleric saying he wouldn't inform on a potential bomber in the UK, imagine what he preaches in the mosques. Sick.

You're so full of shit. On the one hand you don't tolerate the killing of innocent Westerners (which you shouldn't), but, on the other hand, you're absolutely OK with innocent Iraqi's being killed (which you shouldn't aswell). And don't give me this bullshit about colateral damage etc. Majority of the prisoners in Abu Gharib are just normal citizens who have nothing to do with insurgency or terrorism, who're being tortured and sexualy abused as we speak. Fucking uraniums bullets the military is using is casuing thousands of Iraqi children to be born with horrendous fucking defects as we speak. How the fuck is targeting and bombing water and energy supplies colateral damage? It's very hypocritical of you to not tolerate innocents British/Americans being killed whereas you don't give a shit about the plight of the Iraqi's nor are you proposing any actions being taken to stop the attrocities currently taking place in Iraq as we speak. And this isn't just limited to Iraq, but broader British/US policies in the Middle East over the last few decades. If you're going to criticize attrocities and injustices, then don't pick which ones will and which ones you won't. They're all wrong.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

So stop being a hypocrite NYCTrancefan.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I'm going to take my time to respectfully respond to you, first off do not assume what I think because you do not know jack shit about me and my views. You can ask anyone on this forum and they will state that I in no way support Iraq and collateral damage so before you go about using your profanities like a two bit, jump the gun clutz, know who you are referring to. I have not been posting here frequently as in the past so maybe you don't know my viewpoints about Iraq, in no fucking way do I condone, accept or support what innoncent Iraqis have to endure, so you spare me the assenine slanders about what my views are. I have resisted responding to many of your post, but this one is the worst of all in that you assume I condone what is happening to Iraqis.

Take note I condone no violence against innocent people, and what does any of what you say have to do with the killing of innocent people in Britain or Iraq. The only condoning I see here is an apologist who feels oh well the bombing in Britain may be wrong but there's Iraq. Before you make a post to me take the time to see my posts on Iraq and maybe you will be better informed next time. Note I never once made mention of defending the U.S. troops in Iraq or their actions at any point in my posts and I would challenge you to show me. You would never be able to.

For someone like myself who thinks globally and respects other cultures and societies and have a deep passion and interest for them your statements pertaining to me are insulting and absurd in tone and faulty assumptions.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Aug-07-2005 at 23:09

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Truly sickening that the freedom of speech of these people are deemed to be at stake while some blame Blair's policy for the bombs and don't even look twice at the perpetrators actions, as some of these comments show what kind of individuals are under scrutiny.

Well, that was a very misleading statement when I already made clear that I'm opposed to innocent people, regardless of their culture/ideology/religion/nationality/whatever, being killed. Sorry if I misunderstood, but, you seemed to be implying alot of things about me which are absolutely false. I already told you that I agree with you for the most part. In my first post all I was trying to point out is that you can't have freedom of speech by putting limits on it and penalising people for exercising it, regardless of how appaling their views are.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by ali92 What about the decent Muslims who grew up & were born in the UK as well? British-born Muslims. If they're decent people and don't harm society (and society only benefits from them), why not allow them to stay there?

I'm actually really amazed that you managed to magic up and read so much much out that single sentence I wrote.

In case you forgot the thread topic is about 'Islamic radicals'. I don't know what planet you must be living in if you think the UK benefits from having people here preaching hate against us. So where did i mention or even indicate that i was refering to descent muslims or even muslims?.

I also seem to recall 4 descent British-born Muslims that decided to go sightseeing in london a few weeks ago.

I spose thats a hate crime to point that out