what is the definition of the word cheater?
someone who leads you to believe something that is not true

universaly - A dj's mission is to bring different types and genres of melodies via various electronical devices in an venue.

so in end if you use a software like ableton or final scratch and you are acheving your goal - then I dont see any reason to call you cheater

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quote:

Originally posted by gorex what is the definition of the word cheater? someone who leads you to believe something that is not true universaly - A dj's mission is to bring different types and genres of melodies via various electronical devices in an venue. so in end if you use a software like ableton or final scratch and you are acheving your goal - then I dont see any reason to call you cheater

semantics.. but still your point is noted. i agree but i have more respect for the djs that do it without the help of computer programs... i guess cuz im working so hard at finessing these talents myself.

quote:

Originally posted by djHollen This is more of the point I was getting at with posting this thread.

yes, but you also must accept that a starting kid must first know if he liks it, is it worth it and is it what he expected before he buys the equipment...

and as far as for a club, we also pay to see the guy do some work...therefore yes using a computer to beat match and transition between songs is not what we pay to go to a club for...

but i sitll wouldn't call a person that uses virtual dj for his pleasure and house parties a cheater...

IMO this is the best way if you are a complete n00b to mixing (like i was). You can learn how tracks go together (phrase matching) without worrying about beatmatching.

If it wasn't for traktor i dont think i would have progressed as far as i have, i would have lost patience trying to learn to beatmatch, phrasematch and eq all at the same time would have been too much

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tvmann
If this software is anything like Traktor, it will require a fair bit of work to be able to use it smoothly, and it will end up costing about the same as decks and a mixer. All manufacturers like to make exaggerated claims about their their product.

If it is similar to Traktor, if you put in the time you will reduce the work of beatmatching, which is a low-level mechanical skill. You can use that free time to work the mixer EQ, pick the best tracks from a very large collection, read the crowd etc - the more creative parts of the job.

Should a carpenter build a house without power tools, just because that's the way they did it 80 years ago? Should your airliner captain never use the auto-pilot on his plane, just because the Wright Brothers never had one? [/ QUOTE][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yellow][COLOR=yel
low][COLOR=yellow]




SIRrrrr....

I salute you...

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann Should a carpenter build a house without power tools, just because that's the way they did it 80 years ago? Should your airliner captain never use the auto-pilot on his plane, just because the Wright Brothers never had one?

No, they shoudln't. And thats why djs use new types of decks/mixers. And why some djs use CD TTs rather than vinyls, or SSL/FS etc. They STILL do the SAME work, however the technology to carry out that work has changed.

However, a carpenter doesn't use a machine that cuts and puts all the pieces of wood together, and let him come along and just bang the nails in and take the credit.






What a piss poor analogy

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I'll say it once, adn i'll say it again....

Djing is like being a drafting.... it's a dying artform...

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay I'll say it once, adn i'll say it again.... Djing is like being a drafting.... it's a dying artform...

Especially with you. j/k (apparently that means I'm joking, I've never used it before)






And you want to kill it even more by letting a computer do half the job?

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quote:

Originally posted by djHollen I have never used the product so perhaps I don't understand the product fully. But it seems like this would take away our mixing abilities and leave us with just song selection.

do you feel threatened by the PC or something? beatmatching is a technical skill, computers are devices of technology...

and no digital algorithm will match beats the way a talented DJ can. go try it for yourself.

big whoop.

how about : - knowing wich tracks really sound awesome together and
when to throw them in.

(mixing intros over outros is easy. for trance this is quite necessary because of the long stretched song structures, but for other styles it's possible to mix the songs really fast after each other and not wait for the outro.)

- adding effects at the right time
- realtime sampling of songs so you can use them later
on in your mix
- proper equalising
- use of accapella's at the right time
- looping certain parts of a track a the right time and combining it with other loops to remix live.
- song selection, buildup and crowd reading
- anyon can feel free to add stuff...


my point is that beatmatching is just a technical skill. the things I mentioned above are all part of the creative proces of DJing and you still need them, even if you use a computer.

greetz

+1 you are exactly right. Beatmatching is just a low-level skill that is a small part of DJing and there are more important skills that are required. NOOBs think that once they can beatmatch, that's about all there is, they put a lot of time into learning it, and that's all they know how to do, so they try to argue that's it's some kind of artform. If beatmatching was so special, a computer could not help you do it.

Essentially all you are doing when you're beatmatching is accurately calculating the BPMs of 2 tracks and compensating for the difference. I go through a BPM calculation procedure with Traktor when I load in tracks from a new CD (or vinyl or BeatPort download), it takes me about a half hour of manual work per CD to do it right. That's work that the regular DJ does not do. Once it's done, the BPM vaue is saved and I don't need to do this again for those tracks. I still need to make small adjustments when I mix bacause many tracks have some drift and my BPM calculation may be off a smidgeon.

The regular DJ must go through the drudge work of calculating the BPM, or beatmatching, every time he mixes. The smarter people will write down the BPM to make it easier next time and to classify their tracks, just like is done with Traktor.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelle how about : - knowing wich tracks really sound awesome together and when to throw them in. (mixing intros over outros is easy. for trance this is quite necessary because of the long stretched song structures, but for other styles it's possible to mix the songs really fast after each other and not wait for the outro.) - adding effects at the right time - realtime sampling of songs so you can use them later on in your mix - proper equalising - use of accapella's at the right time - looping certain parts of a track a the right time and combining it with other loops to remix live. - song selection, buildup and crowd reading - anyon can feel free to add stuff... my point is that beatmatching is just a technical skill. the things I mentioned above are all part of the creative proces of DJing and you still need them, even if you use a computer. greetz

quote:

Originally posted by Jelle (mixing intros over outros is easy. for trance this is quite necessary because of the long stretched song structures, but for other styles it's possible to mix the songs really fast after each other and not wait for the outro.) greetz

I'd fall asleep if I waited for outtros.. i'm usually building up the next track by the first big breakdown