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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: yeaaa. ive read explicitly, and several times that the common belief here in this forum, among the participants is one of not doubt over a god, but the total denial of any god. well, we've gotten into arguements before, ive put out evidence from science itself, of which, im guessing because of the pressuppositions most already have in their minds, they have made up their minds, their not going to hear anything, my evidence is totally looked over. ive had PM's asking questions, like, "how can this be true?" "i want to know more, give me some resources." "how do you know this?" but of course, im the evil theist here to ruin science. im supposedly close-minded and stupid, blah blah blah. this isnt a battle between science and creationism. its a battle between evolutionary interpretation and theistic interpretation. we all have the same evidence, but we both have a different preconcieved notion of how we are going to examine the evidence. science is nuetral.

We both have the same evidence, but we interpret it differently?! You mean, you dont accept all evidence as evidence?

For example the order of things in the creation accout totally contradicts with proven science, how could you interpret that differently?!

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Originally posted by St_Andrew We both have the same evidence, but we interpret it differently?! You mean, you dont accept all evidence as evidence? For example the order of things in the creation accout totally contradicts with proven science, how could you interpret that differently?!

yes we do have the same evidence. the fossil record, space, experimentation, nature. creationist scientist are also looking at the same things the evolutionists are looking at, but with a different preconcieved view/assumption/opinion/pressupposition.

out of your second paragraph, all i get from that is your opinion, your preconcieved assumption of how your going to interpret whatever evidence is given to you. this is not objective. you havnt looked at the evidence for creationism, so how do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt what you just said?

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hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then....
How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8??

Complete bull-pucky statement...intelligence capacity has no baring on piety.
If anything, I've only ever experienced quite the opposite.

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...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Pope John Paul couldn't even speak one language whenever I saw him on TV!

thomas aquinas, augustinus, spinoza(i think?) were amongst the greatest philosophers of the western world while at the same time religious.

Einstein didn't exclude the possibility of god either..wasn't he agnostic if not even slightly religious?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then.... How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8?? Complete bull-pucky statement...intelligence capacity has no baring on piety. If anything, I've only ever experienced quite the opposite.

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Originally posted by occrider As for religion and intelligence, I’m guessing there’s no correlation with moderation. However, once you get to the extremes I'm sure some things can be inferred. I think that to be a fundy, you kind of have to shut down some reason and logic centers in the brain. To express this mathematically, the limit of x as you approach fundamentalism equals infinite stupidity.

People who study religion and texts however open up their mind more to new things not like the people who hate every subject in school because they thing math won't get them any where in life, meanwhile it's challenging their thinking abilities and broadening their minds.

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religion can be a very powerful socialising agent. and just like any other agent can easily transcend or hurdle one\'s intelligence. most of the people in the world believe in one deity or another. as stupid as people are, id hardly say a belief in god equates with a lack of intelligence.

i think its more how ppl use their belief that makes them stupid.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then.... How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8??

Knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. Intelligence is your ability to reason, not to hold information.

By the definition of what intelligence is, yes, religious people are automatically less intelligent.

Oh and by the way, the I.Q. system is a joke. The only thing it can do is give you extremely vague estimates. Not only are most questions not nessessarily intelligence-based, but your level of intelligence is in constant variation, and to get a general idea of it using this sort of test, you'd have to take douzens of tests during one average week to get a range of scores that apply to you. In any case, the only true indication of intelligence is opinions, and no such testing system could be implemented because of political correctness (or simply because everyone is brought up to think 'all opinions are equal'). A credible "I.Q." test would have questions like: "Are you religious? ()yes ()no", or "What is your stance on this political situation?".