^^^ that's a rather negative exaggeration and stereotype as well. Are you suggesting that Ignatieff achieved what he has through regurgitating textbook info, kissing profs' asses, and pandering to special interest groups?

In my experience, the people holding the most negative views of the academic world are those who haven't spent much time in it...

This is all irrelevant to the thread anyway...I was merely pointing out someone who could very well be a leadership candidate for the Liberal party in the future and how it might be refreshing to have someone come from a different background than law and business (the typical ones for our PMs, it seems).

The Liberal bashers want some change and integrity brought to the party...maybe some positive remarks about someone with Ignatieff's reputation are therefore in order?

quote:

Originally posted by xls so typical of conservatives. gets into a discussion about whether someone should/shouldn't be considered a decent candidate for Prime Minister of CANADA, and points to a website about AMERICAN history as a support to his arguments.

It's an older country that's experienced many of the things Canada is currently experiencing. For example, with respect to the threat of Quebec and Alberta/Western separation, we can learn a lot from the Civil War. With respect to Lieberal corruption, we can learn a lot from the Tammany Hall/Boss Tweed era.

We can either learn from their mistakes or repeat them. The wise choice is the former.

You need to open your mind.

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quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Shadowolf's criticism is just stupid...why would they talk about what's best for Canada when this individual has neither been publicly approached by the Liberal party nor publicly stated a desire to join and lead it as of yet...so writing about what's "best for Canada" is a wee bit premature, no?!?

That's exactly my point. Paul Martin hasn't stepped down, yet people are already talking about his replacement. This article was designed to lay the ground work for the next coronation.

quote:

but that's Shadowolf's usual M.O...that he calls this article "disgusting" simply indicates his anti-Liberal bias. If this was an article about some Green Party candidate (or any party other than the Liberals, for that matter), he'd be posting an entirely different opinion, lol

That's because the federal Lieberals have a problem with democracy (just look at today's Senate appointments). We're supposed to be in awe of this guy's credentials as he's being forced upon us.

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quote:

Originally posted by MarkT In my experience, the people holding the most negative views of the academic world are those who haven't spent much time in it...

I've already got one degree, and I intend on getting another. That doesn't change my viewpoint - it's a means to an end, nothing more. The piece of paper is a status symbol that entitles one to preferential treatment because of a *supposed* standard of achievement and intelligence. More than anything else, the university degree is a relic from a time when academics were about independent thinking and challenging the status quo, not accepting the status quo as gospel and coming up with new ways to defend it and browbeat the free thinkers.

I'm not saying that every graduate and every professor in every program at every university follows this pattern, but the academic world *at large* certainly does. Just look at the "speech codes" in half the U.S. universities and almost all the Canadian universities. Brainwashing 101.

quote:

The Liberal bashers want some change and integrity brought to the party...maybe some positive remarks about someone with Ignatieff's reputation are therefore in order?

What makes you think (and why do you expect us to believe) that an LPC candidate with a more academic background is going to do have more integrity once put in a position of power? Ask any conservative student about their experiences with professors when they've tried to voice their opinions, and you'll learn very quickly that the average academic's "integrity" only exists when they're dealing with like-minded people.

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quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's exactly my point. Paul Martin hasn't stepped down, yet people are already talking about his replacement. This article was designed to lay the ground work for the next coronation.

so what??? How is that a "disgusting" article. Your exaggerations are soooo lame. How else do you get people's name out there than to put out pieces like this one??? Since when is it unusual to talk about someone's replacement before they leave office? Should we wait until the day Martin leaves, THEN start putting out names? Give me a break, lol...you're being ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's because the federal Lieberals have a problem with democracy (just look at today's Senate appointments). We're supposed to be in awe of this guy's credentials as he's being forced upon us.

I knew someone would mention these Senate appointments, lol...Paul Martin has appointed about a dozen Liberals (and 5 non-Liberals) to the Senate...I'm not sure if this source includes the latest appointments, so the # appears to be either 11 or 13.

Brian Mulroney appointed FIFTY-FIVE Conservatives to the Senate...and only two non-Conservatives...during his tenure as PM

In all fairness, Chretien was even worse than Mulroney...point being that it's not just the evil Liberals who take care of their own, it seems.

source: Senate Appointments by Prime Ministers

Last edited by MarkT on Aug-30-2005 at 04:07

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I've already got one degree, and I intend on getting another. That doesn't change my viewpoint - it's a means to an end, nothing more. The piece of paper is a status symbol that entitles one to preferential treatment because of a *supposed* standard of achievement and intelligence. More than anything else, the university degree is a relic from a time when academics were about independent thinking and challenging the status quo, not accepting the status quo as gospel and coming up with new ways to defend it and browbeat the free thinkers. I'm not saying that every graduate and every professor in every program at every university follows this pattern, but the academic world *at large* certainly does. Just look at the "speech codes" in half the U.S. universities and almost all the Canadian universities. Brainwashing 101.

a university degree is not a measure of intelligence...I never claimed it was. I would say it indicates some level or ability in critical thinking, analysis, research, being well read in their area(s) of study, etc. To say a degree means nothing or is just a status symbol is bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What makes you think (and why do you expect us to believe) that an LPC candidate with a more academic background is going to do have more integrity once put in a position of power? Ask any conservative student about their experiences with professors when they've tried to voice their opinions, and you'll learn very quickly that the average academic's "integrity" only exists when they're dealing with like-minded people.

I didn't say he had more integrity...more intelligence...or is "better". I just said it might be a refreashing change.

wow...shit...fuk me for suggesting that some change might be good. This just tells me that some people are soooo biased that no matter what the party does, the Liberals can do no good.

Your final line is humourous...so you're suggesting that most professors are Liberals who stifle the voices and opinions of their Conservative students. Dude, lay off the conspiracy theories, LOL

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut - Academics <> well-educated, intelligent people - Journalists and authors <> well-educated, intelligent people

Thanks for the tip, captain obvious.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Honestly, from where did you get this stereotype?

haha I was just quoting you!

easy, i'm just having a laugh. that's my other beef with conservatives - no sense of humour!

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quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf It's an older country that's experienced many of the things Canada is currently experiencing. For example, with respect to the threat of Quebec and Alberta/Western separation, we can learn a lot from the Civil War. With respect to Lieberal corruption, we can learn a lot from the Tammany Hall/Boss Tweed era.

And with respect to conservative corruption and cronyism, we can learn a lot from the past 30 years. (And don't even bring up the Clinton era as an example of liberalism during that time period.)

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf We can either learn from their mistakes or repeat them. The wise choice is the former.

Congratulations, you passed grade 10 history!

On the other hand, you missed my point entirely.

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quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Disgusting article. -There's no mention of what's best for CANADA, only what's best for the PARTY. -The elites are seeking a coronation, not an election. This article is part of that process.

Looks like I was exactly right. A party that's run like a dictatorship will run the country like a dictatorship. The Lieberal Party needs to be purged so that honest liberals (mentioned in the article) will no longer be tainted.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...7e6588b&k=61815

Ignatieff 'coronation' protested in riding

Ukrainians cite writings

James Cowan
National Post

Monday, November 28, 2005

TORONTO - The man touted as a potential successor to Prime Minister Paul Martin ran into trouble yesterday before he had even officially entered politics, as members of a Toronto riding association protested his "coronation" as their local candidate.

Harvard professor Michael Ignatieff is seen as a star candidate in the coming election, but members of the Etobicoke-Lakeshore Liberal riding association said yesterday they do not want him running in their riding.

Protesting outside their party's offices in downtown Toronto, association members said Mr. Ignatieff was a poor choice for their riding because he has expressed views that are offensive to the area's large Ukrainian population, including his admission that he feels a "disdain" for Ukrainians.

Association members alleged the Liberal party has subverted its normal procedures to make it difficult for anyone to challenge Mr. Ignatieff's bid for the nomination.

"It's quite clear that they want to drop a high-profile candidate into this riding and they'll make it as tough as they can to let anyone else in," said Marc Shwec, who wants to seek the nomination.

"The Liberals are looking for good governance and they said they've cleaned up shop. You would think they would play by their own rules, as ugly as they may be," Mr. Shwec said.

Carrying signs reading "Local Liberals Locked Out" and "Democratic Deficit Strikes Again," approximately 40 riding association members rallied yesterday, threatening not to support Mr. Ignatieff if he becomes the local candidate.

"I just think it's a sham," said Ron Chyczij, the association's president. "I'm personally very disappointed."

The Liberals had been searching for a riding for Mr. Ignatieff for several months, but already had a full slate of candidates in the Toronto region. A space was finally cleared for him on Friday, when Minister of State Jean Augustine agreed to step aside.

Mr. Chyczij said he was told late on Friday that Ms. Augustine was stepping aside and that individuals interested in replacing her should file nomination papers by 5 p.m. on Saturday. Two candidates, Mr. Chyczij and Mr. Shwec, completed the paperwork on schedule. But when Mr. Chyczij attempted to file the nomination papers at the Liberal offices, he discovered that despite the obvious presence of people inside, the doors were locked.

"I counted at least five people, but they just wouldn't answer the door," Mr. Chyzij said. "I hammered the door so hard, I thought I was going to break either my wrist or the door."

After numerous phone calls and further banging, Mr. Chyzij said he slid the paper under the door.

Liberal officials said yesterday they will honour the nomination papers if they were filed on time.

"There is a standard set of criteria across Ontario," said Mike Crawley, president of the Liberal Party of Canada-Ontario.

There was no effort to block other candidates from competing, Mr. Crawley added.

"Any nomination process has its share of acrimony and sometimes things boil over, but calmer heads usually prevail," he said.

Among the reasons it has been so difficult for the Liberals to find a riding for Mr. Ignatieff was his support of the war in Iraq, which made him a poor choice for any area with a high Muslim population. But Liberals in Etobicoke-Lakeshore believe the academic is equally ill-suited to their riding, which boasts a large Ukrainian population. In his book Blood and Belonging, the author invokes Russian imperialism, writing he feels a "disdain" for the Ukrainian people. Mr. Ignatieff describes Ukrainian culture as "embroidered peasant shirts, the nasal whine of ethnic instruments, phony Cossacks in cloaks and boots."

Mr. Ignatieff -- who is returning to Toronto after several decades in Boston, and had been scheduled to teach at the University of Toronto -- could not be reached for comment.

© National Post 2005

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Success = ability to exploit people

hahah now who's the loony left

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut In other words, loony left. Personally, I'd like to see someone with *practical* knowledge and experience elected!

Sigh why does someone who is an academic have to be from the loony left? Does not writing ablility and the scholarship and research have any merit?


oh well I suppose. How goes that book burning event there digitwat?

Swilly san

Last edited by swilly on Nov-28-2005 at 14:51