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| quote: | Originally posted by Nou
Japan attacking the US when it did was a historic blunder, if they would have bid their time the US would have not entered the war until to late.
See what should have happened is that Hitler should have finished off England and taken it into its empire.
THEN it could turn its sights to the east and attack Russia.
Japan, having conquered China and most of South East Asia should have held off while the Nazi's moved eastward and Stalin drew his Far East forces back west to fight the Germans. Then Japan should have swept north and fought along the trans-Siberian railroad following the Far Eastern forces and getting Russia into a two front war.
Russia would have easily been defeated and now Japan and Germany would control most of Asia and Europe. Either side could have gone south and helped conquer those countries that had yet to ally with the axis powers.
The US would have been screwed at this point. They would have no way to land on either side of Asia or Europe.
At this point Japan could attack the US forces in the Pacific and have the full help of Germany with them.
Ahhh but hindsight is 20/20, too bad huh? |
There are a few small flaws with this senario....
a) the US was producing ships at close to 70% capacity prior to the Pearl Harbor.... they were preping for war. At 70% capacity they outpaced Japan's production of war materials by more then double. Japan knew that it would not have the ability to enter into a war of attrition with the US. The decision to attack Pearl Harbor was a good one as nearly the entire Pacific fleet was docked there at one time. Had the attack been executed more efficiently and had included the carriers Japan could have easily taken Hawaii. Without Hawaii the US would have to supply any forces mounted against Japan from the west coast (San Diego specifically)..... a supply line streatching the entire Pacific ocean would have been impossible to maintain. Taking Hawaii would have effectively made it impossible for the US to enter the war in the Pacific. It was a calculated risk and the odds were with Japan (especially considering that conventional naval strategy at the time depended on battleships not carriers and all the Pacific Fleet's battle ships were in harbor at the time).
b) focusing on Russia with Germany would have been a very good idea as it would have created a two front war for Russia. Unfortunately, Japan did not have the resources availible to them to undertake such a task. They needed more fuel oil. This is why they were going for Indonesia. Attacking Russia would have been impossible without the resources in Indonesia.... control of Indonesia would have been difficult if not impossible to maintain if the US were to become involved, thus, the US would need to be taken out prior to taking Indoniesia.
c) The idea of Germany and Japan sharing Russia is ideologically impossible. Russia was the prize for Hitler. Russia was the "living space" that Germany was after. The west of Russia would be used as an agricultural zone, the capean sea would be exploited for it's oil, and the black sea for it's resources. Beyond that was to be the area in which the Germans conducted their "1000 year war." Well, this plan is impossible if you have Japan occupying the areas in which you plan to conduct your war and rape the resources.
Additionally, Japan was not about to share anything with anyone. They had no desire to work with Germany beyond their own interest. They were allied with Germany simply because they had the same enemies.
IF either of these powers had succeeded in their war plans they would have gone on to fight their "ally" in the end. Neither of them wanted to see the other control even part of Russia as it would give them additional resources and make the coming war against each other unbalanced.
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| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about. |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down 
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