quote:

Originally posted by SpecRadio But I truley don't see any skill being put into their sets. I did watch that reaktor 5 thing...that actually took some skill. What Zab & Sasha do...requires the brain of an infant. Zab just turns the efx 1000 on flange and jerks the CD player off as fast as he can... And sasha moves faders up and down. I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that. If you don't want the same song to be played, remix it...or add efx or something. Put some vocals on top.

LOL that has to go in my top 10 most bullshite posts ever....If u think zabiela isnt talented your really really talking out of your arse. The majority if not all the effects and tricks that guys pulling of on reaktor Zabiela can do and has been doing for years.

___________________

Hawtin/Zabiela would be tied...

Sasha is using it to achieve his own sound he doesnt really care about "using it to its full extent".

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

quote:

Originally posted by SpecRadio I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that.

I'm not backing-up Sasha here, but...

You're talking about tune-quality, not the technical-aspect. He bored you because, musically, it didn't fit your style. That has absolutely nothing to do with how he uses Ableton.

sasha and hawtin both use it for different purposes. Sasha as someone said before to further his sound. Hawtin really takes abelton to the limit. Very nice work from both of them.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad Clovis FTW.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by SpecRadio But I truley don't see any skill being put into their sets. I did watch that reaktor 5 thing...that actually took some skill. What Zab & Sasha do...requires the brain of an infant. Zab just turns the efx 1000 on flange and jerks the CD player off as fast as he can... And sasha moves faders up and down. I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that. If you don't want the same song to be played, remix it...or add efx or something. Put some vocals on top. Plus...I've seen what sasha requires at ever club he plays at...sounds like a major fag . A Xone V6 with like 4 CDJ's...and if not...a Xone 62. If you don't have that, he wont play. Also, he needs the monitors the right way. Top DJ's/Producers are fags. Well...most of them.

I didnt address this before but I would have to say that you are, full of shit.

You obviously have no FUCKING clue what you're talking about and have seen neither of these DJ's perform live. Sasha, while not using the full capabilities of live in anyway, uses it as a tool to shape his sets. He doesnt re-mix on the fly all the time, but he most certainly edits, aranging tracks so they can be mixed to his liking, i.e. looping/cutting so that the mixes come out the way he wants, making his sets unique. Sasha has always been lauded for his exceptionally long mixes and terriffic beatmatching, this allows him to take those to the next level.

Zabiela is just on another level with Ableton...he throws in samples and re-edits tracks in ways which are mind boggling, because he makes it seem so simple and makes it sound so "right".

All ableton does for you is beatmatch, which, any good dj will tell you, is NOT that hard in the first place...the rest of the mix is up to you, and with ableton you can get alot crazier than with a simple pair of CDJs/technics.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

very interesting inputs you guys


i am thinking of buying a serato scratch live and hook it up with my pioneer cmx 3000 cd player.

can someone tell me how i can put ableton in between? ... i would like to make edits and nice loops.. but is ableton's job to make things on the fly or pre-edit and play the music at a later time?

those djs doing edits,adding funky sounds or any other effects to tracks, dont they need prior approval from that artist?

Last edited by raveanddie on Oct-15-2005 at 13:40

I don't know guys.

Whilst I hear good input in this thread I have certain reservations.

Whilst the above mentioned are good DJ's in their own right if you understand music a bit you will soon see some of the question marks I have about Ableton etc.

Agreed beatmatching is trivial no doubt and isn't and should never be the focus on this arguement.

My own gut reaction is that Ableton removes the spontaineous element of DJing.
Sure these guys are dropping in some really clever aditions and re-edits into their sets. But in order for it to work etc. there is a certain degree of preparation required before hand. You have to know if the section you drop is in key and so on. If you don't do this it will sound shite and there are no two ways about it.
There is also a limit to how much you can remix on the fly too without it getting messy and truth be told it sounds to me as if these guys work harder on their sets before hand than the actual performance itself.

When I saw Zabiela I saw about 20 people standing round him just watching him work, some even had notepads... This guy would make a fortune if he released a DVD.
That's not DJing that's just being a total Anorak and sometimes I don't think that everything Zabiela does sounds good, it's clever for the sake of it and I'm not really into that. His technical skills are good but I don't always rate the end content.

With regards to Sasha, well ok so he's not taking Ableton to the next level... does he have to?
In my opinion his sets were one big sleeper long before he went digital but that is personal preference.

Ableton does give you a nice edge on being able to do something unique if you have the talent for it, besides if I want to add a vocal into a breakdown I can anyway without digital.

One of the overhanging factors with Ableton with a lot of people is that it perhaps requires just an understanding of the technology rather than an aquired skill to perform. Granted you still have to have a good musical imagination to come up with the goods.


Some people may compare this to the time when computers were coming into music vs real instruments. The difference being that you still have to be musical even to write it on a computer.
You don't have to be a good DJ to use Ableton although it will certainly help.

I do however like the idea of Ableton in terms of perhaps doing some funky things to a track at home and then throwing that into your mix. In effect you play your own remix, although you don't need ableton to do that but it may make that a little less time consuming.

I'm not yet sold on the product but can see a lot of good things.

My vote would have to be Richie though, as the other to are about the same as watching paint dry for me in any context.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Psiweaver sasha and hawtin both use it for different purposes. Sasha as someone said before to further his sound. Hawtin really takes abelton to the limit. Very nice work from both of them.

+1