quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Plame wasn't some covert NOC.

Bull.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/

quote:

Sources told CNN that Plame works in the CIA's Directorate of Operations -- the part of the agency in charge of spying -- and worked in the field for many years as an undercover officer. "If she were only an analyst, not an operative, we would not have filed a crimes report" with the Justice Department, a senior intelligence official said.

Why did the CIA ask for the investigation if she wasn't covert?

quote:

CIA Seeks Probe of White House Agency asks Justice to investigate leak of employee’s identity by MSNBC.com’s Alex Johnson with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell WASHINGTON, Sept. 26 — The CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations that the White House broke federal laws by revealing the identity of one of its undercover employees in retaliation against the woman’s husband, a former ambassador who publicly criticized President Bush’s since-discredited claim that Iraq had sought weapons-grade uranium from Africa, NBC News has learned. THE FORMER ENVOY, Joseph Wilson, who was acting ambassador to Iraq before the first Gulf War, was dispatched to Niger in 2002 to investigate a British intelligence report that Iraq sought to buy uranium there. Although Wilson discredited the report, Bush cited it in his State of the Union address in January among the evidence he said justified military action in Iraq. The administration has since had to repudiate the claim. CIA Director George Tenet said the 16-word sentence should not have been included in Bush’s Jan. 28 speech and publicly accepted responsibility for allowing it to remain in the president’s text. Wilson published an article in July alleging, however, that the White House recklessly made the charge knowing it was false. “We spend billions of dollars on intelligence,” Wilson wrote. “But we end up putting something in the State of the Union address, something we got from another intelligence agency, something we cannot independently verify, in an area of Africa where the British have no on-the-ground presence.” WHITE HOUSE DENIALS The next week, columnist Robert Novak published an article in which he revealed that Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, was a covert CIA operative specializing in weapons of mass destruction. “Two senior administration officials told me Wilson’s wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate,” Novak wrote. The White House has denied being Novak’s source, whom he has refused to identify. But Wilson has said other reporters have told him White House officials leaked Plame’s identity. NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell reported Friday night that the CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate whether White House officials blew Plame’s cover in retaliation against Wilson. Revealing the identities of covert officials is a violation of two laws, the National Agents’ Identity Act and the Unauthorized Release of Classified Information Act. ATTEMPTS TO REMOVE CLAIM When the Niger claim first arose, in February 2002, the CIA sent Wilson to Africa to investigate. He reported finding no credible evidence that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger. The CIA’s doubts about the uranium claim were reported through routine intelligence traffic throughout the government, U.S. intelligence officials said. Those doubts were also reported to the British. The Niger report included a notation that it was unconfirmed when it was published in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, the classified summary of intelligence on Iraq’s weapons programs. As the State of the Union address was being written, CIA officials protested over how the alleged uranium connection was being portrayed, so the administration changed it to attribute it to the British, who had made the assertion in a Sept. 24 dossier. By MSNBC.com’s Alex Johnson with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell.

I suggest you also read the non-partisan Stratfor article above.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Oct-24-2005 at 06:18

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ I suggest you also read the non-partisan Stratfor article above.

dude, do you even know what a NOC is?

you're a smart guy. she was questionably "covert" at the time.

we'll see whether she was a NOC or not by definition, if she was, none of us would be talking about this right now.

in addition, that article is older than my great, great grandpa's buckskin rubber.

Oh boy:

quote:

Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday. Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby's testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said [...] Mr. Libby's notes indicate that Mr. Cheney had gotten his information about Ms. Wilson from George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence, in response to questions from the vice president about Mr. Wilson. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/p...82iTsI03SJ7ks9Q

Sing with me, Dick:

"Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you

Yes I am stuck in the middle with you
And I'm wondering what it is I should do
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face
Losing joy yer, I'm all over the place....."


Hey Q, remember our wager? You still in? I know the pot's pretty big now, but please don't back out now.......

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Hey Q, remember our wager? You still in? I know the pot's pretty big now, but please don't back out now.......

the Delay Witch Hunt or the Plame Name Blame Game?

if it's the latter, refresh my memory.

What's funny is how apologists make light of the whole situation because a "real" crime wasn't committed ... forgetting of course that the crime these people will likely be charged with, perjury, was the very same non-crime that brought about Clinton's impeachment. Sweet, sweet irony.

But what do I know?

quote:

Bush: CIA leak probe 'very serious' Monday, October 24, 2005 Posted: 2117 GMT (0517 HKT) WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush said Monday the investigation into the outing of a covert CIA operative was "very serious," even as Republican allies started casting aspersions on the prosecutor and the possibility of perjury charges. The mixed signals came as special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald appeared close to indicting top White House officials in the nearly two-year investigation, lawyers involved in the case said. Fitzgerald's investigation has focused largely on Karl Rove, Bush's top political adviser, and Lewis Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, and their conversations with reporters about CIA operative Valerie Plame in June and July of 2003. After a Cabinet meeting, Bush was asked whether he agreed with Republican suggestions that Fitzgerald may be overzealous and that possible perjury charges would be little more than legal technicalities. "This is a very serious investigation," Bush said. Rove sat behind the president in the Cabinet room; across the room sat Libby. Lawyers involved in the case say Fitzgerald has laid the groundwork for indictments this week, and that he was focusing on whether Rove, Libby and others may have tried to conceal their involvement in the leak from investigators. Indictments against any top officials would be a severe blow to an administration already at a low point in public opinion, and would put a spotlight on aggressive tactics used by the White House to counter critics of its Iraq policy. Plame's identity was leaked to the media after her diplomat husband, Joseph Wilson, challenged the Bush administration's prewar intelligence on Iraq. Lawyers said one possibility was a "split decision" in which Libby is indicted and Rove is spared. But one lawyer involved in the case said that could be just as damaging to the White House because of the possibility that Cheney himself could be implicated in any resulting trial. "It's improbable to think of Libby out there as a free agent," the lawyer said. Bracing for bad news, White House officials are discussing how to cope without Rove and Libby if they are indicted and forced to step down. Asked about the uncertainty, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said, "We've got to keep our energies focused on the things we can do something about." While Fitzgerald could still charge administration officials with knowingly revealing Plame's identity, the lawyers said he appeared more likely to seek charges for easier-to-prove crimes such as making false statements, obstruction of justice and disclosing classified information. Over the weekend, Republicans launched a pre-emptive strike against possible charges for perjury. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas derided any potential perjury charge as a "technicality," and suggested Fitzgerald may be trying to show that "two years' of investigation was not a waste of time and dollars." Other Republicans with close ties to the White House suggested that Fitzgerald was looking at perjury and obstruction charges because he was having trouble proving that officials knowingly leaked the identity of a covert operative. In contrast, Bush has publicly praised Fitzgerald's investigation, saying earlier this month that "he's doing it in a very dignified way." http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/24/cia.leak.investigation.reut/index.html

This must be trying times for apologists to figure out exactly what party line they should be toeing.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Oct-25-2005 at 05:27

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the Delay Witch Hunt or the Plame Name Blame Game? if it's the latter, refresh my memory.

Oh hell, I'll parley them both together! But I was originally referring to the thread topic at hand.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

you're on.

i think it's funny that liberal media whores would say that, in light of the possibility that no indictments will be handed down, "they must have done something illegal otherwise why was there an investigation?"

when, in fact, liberal media whores don't know anything.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider What's funny is how apologists make light of the whole situation because a "real" crime wasn't committed ... forgetting of course that the crime these people will likely be charged with, perjury, was the very same non-crime that brought about Clinton's impeachment. Sweet, sweet irony. But what do I know? This must be trying times for apologists to figure out exactly what party line they should be toeing.

Heh....I was walking into the kitchen when my roomate had MSNBC on earlier today and they were playing an interview with Kay Bailey Hutchinson where she felt that any indictments that "dealt with the investigation" not the "original crime" should not be pressed. They then put the text up on screen of her letter detailign why she voted to remove clinton from office where she stated that perjury and obstruction of justice needed to be prosecuted at all times otherwise the entire legal process would be undermined.

Made me laugh.


MrS

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-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

i agree with Kristol.

quote:

Originally said by Bill Kristolif anyone lied under oath the way Bill Clinton did--knowingly and purposefully in order to thwart a legitimate legal process, or if anyone engaged in an obstruction of justice, the way Bill Clinton did, then indictments would be proper.

LOL.

well 1 out of 2 ain't so bad. i'm pretty confident that there is a conspiracy to obstruct justice as well (involving libby, Rove, and Cheney), so i hope this is not the end.

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My mixes:

Still up:1:2

Down:3:4:5

Time: Rove's Lawyer Told of Conversation

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer



WASHINGTON - Months before Karl Rove corrected his statements in the Valerie Plame investigation, his lawyer was told that the president's top political adviser might have disclosed Plame's CIA status to a Time magazine reporter.

Rove says he had forgotten the conversation he had on July 11, 2003, with Time's Matt Cooper. But the magazine reported Sunday that in the first half of 2004, as President Bush's re-election campaign was heating up, Rove's lawyer got the word about a possible Rove-Cooper conversation from a second Time reporter, Viveca Novak.

Novak described her conversation with the lawyer, Robert Luskin, in a first-person account released Sunday on Time's Web site.

Luskin declined comment. Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Rove's legal team, said the deputy White House chief of staff has cooperated fully with prosecutors.

"The integrity of the investigation requires that we not discuss the substance of any communications with the special counsel," Corallo said in a statement. "Out of respect for the investigative process, we have abided by that rule and will continue to withhold comment on our interactions with the special counsel."

Six weeks ago, in a so-far successful effort to avert Rove's indictment, Luskin disclosed his conversation with Novak to the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald. Rove remains under investigation.

In her first-person account, Novak wrote that Luskin clearly thought disclosing their discussion "was going to help Rove, perhaps by explaining why Rove hadn't told Fitzgerald or the grand jury of his conversation with my colleague Matt Cooper."

Fitzgerald questioned Novak under oath Thursday, the day after the prosecutor began presenting evidence to a new grand jury considering evidence in the leak investigation.

The prosecutor is investigating the Bush administration's leaking of Plame's CIA status to the news media in 2003, as Plame's husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, accused the administration of manipulating prewar intelligence on Iraq.

Novak says Luskin appeared surprised when told in 2004 of a possible Rove-Cooper conversation about the CIA status of Wilson's wife.

Luskin said in effect that "Karl doesn't have a Cooper problem. He was not a source for Matt," Novak wrote. "I responded instinctively, thinking he was trying to spin me."

Novak said she told Luskin "something like, 'Are you sure about that? That's not what I hear around Time.' He looked surprised and very serious" and at the end of their discussion that day said, "Thank you. This is important."

Novak said the conversation with Luskin occurred anywhere from January 2004 to May 2004; she thinks it was perhaps in March.

It was not until October 2004 — sometime between five months and nine months after Novak's conversation with Luskin — that Rove disclosed his conversation with Cooper to the prosecutor.

Rove's disclosure followed Luskin's discovery of a White House e-mail from July 11, 2003. The message, from Rove to then-deputy national security adviser Stephen Hadley, referred to Rove's conversation earlier that day with Cooper.

It is not known publicly whether Fitzgerald's investigators had the e-mail all along and simply overlooked it or whether the White House had not produced the e-mail for the prosecutor.

By the time Rove stepped forward to disclose the Cooper conversation to investigators, Cooper was under intense pressure from the prosecutor to reveal the original source of his information that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.

Five months ago, his court appeals exhausted and after receiving a personal waiver from Rove, Cooper disclosed that his source had been the president's top political adviser.

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, is under indictment in Fitzgerald's probe on five counts of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI. Libby has pleaded not guilty.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051212...k_investigation