^
what he said.

basically scientists have discovered that 4/4 time is pretty much universal for all human beings(that is everyone should love it). Apparently its hardwired into our DNA cause thousands of years ago..our ancestors basically used this signature with their instruments for tribal dancing. In fact, because of dancing..our body automatically reacts to this and thus it will make us feel happy.

So if someone says he or she doesnt like any dance music..that persons fucking lying.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur 4-to-the-floor is not 4/4.

No, but since all dance music is in 4/4 anyway, when people say "4/4 rhythm" they mean four on the floor.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur ALL ELECTRONIC DANCE MUSIC (except for beatless ambient type crap or weird, fucked up IDM or avant-garde crap) from house to jungle to techno to breaks, trance, jungle, electro, hardcore and downtempo IS IN 4/4 time. It's all 4/4.

that is so not true! u get alot in 6/8, alot of house producers use 6/8 to achieve that insanely over the top shuffle rhythm that you find sometimes, and ive heard techno tracks in 3/4. some guy in the producers forum posted a fantastic techno track in 3/4 called 3,2,1. a track doesnt have to be in 4/4 to have a regular 4 on the floor pattern.

for example:

| 1 - - 2 - - | 3 - - 4 - - |

or even

| 1 - - - - - 2 - - - - - 3 - - - - - 4 - - - - - |

depending on how much freedom you want!

to answer the other question (cant be arsed to look back as his / her name!) about what a beat and a bar mean:

bars are specified measurements of time within a piece of music. Its length is determined by the number of beats per bar and how long each beat lasts for. the beat is the singular measurement of time which determines the speed of a piece of music. for example 60 beats per minute means that the length of each beat is 1/60th of a minute long, (1 second). so if the track was at 60 bpm, with 4/4 time signature, there would be 4 beats, each lasting a second, per bar.

This is the best way i can explain it, its quite a hard thing to explain :/

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here ya go guys, i made an example of a 6/8 4 on the floor beat.

this is sequenced at 200 bpm in 6/8 (that doesnt mean there are 200 kicks per minute!) if u dont believe me ill send the midi file.

http://www.mikefoyle.com/6-8%20200%20BPM.mp3

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Sorry Mike, the time signature isn't necessarily the speed it's sequenced at... it comes from the feel of the track and the way in which the patterns are arranged and how they repeat. The loop you've just given us is emphasized (by the kicks) in a way that technically makes it 4/4 (maybe 2/4) with triplet percussion.

But I agree not all dance music is 4/4... as above, a lot of it could be considered to be 2/4 and some tracks are actually 6/8

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Stu Cox |

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle here ya go guys, i made an example of a 6/8 4 on the floor beat. this is sequenced at 200 bpm in 6/8 (that doesnt mean there are 200 kicks per minute!) if u dont believe me ill send the midi file. http://www.mikefoyle.com/6-8%20200%20BPM.mp3

this is actually very difficult to explain, as this sound sample shows you... the bassdrum alone could be seen as straight 4/4, but the percussion patterns are in 6/8 - the sophisticated placing of the kick makes it actually danceable like regular 4/4 beats.

beats and bars are just a way to organize music. there are some things like the human heartbeat, the breathing rhythm while running/walking and the chewing of food which have been programmed into our mind. our rhythms just follow these timings in some way. so it seems like the 4/4 structure is very easy to understand and at the same time very captivating. so it is very danceable. in general, music is very mathematical, so are the rhythms and structures. most dance music follows 1/2/4/8/16 bar structures. just give it a listen and try to count the beats, which are subdivisions of bars. this is extremely hard to describe. just try to count beats while listening to the radio or your records, and you will get a feeling for it and learn it yourself. btw, did you know that hey ya by outkast is written in 11/4?

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox Sorry Mike, the time signature isn't necessarily the speed it's sequenced at... it comes from the feel of the track and the way in which the patterns are arranged and how they repeat. The loop you've just given us is emphasized (by the kicks) in a way that technically makes it 4/4 (maybe 2/4) with triplet percussion. But I agree not all dance music is 4/4... as above, a lot of it could be considered to be 2/4 and some tracks are actually 6/8

dude the time signiture is 6/8, how else can you explain the presence of 6 clear pulses per bar... if it was 4 4 then the only way this would be possible is using semi quaver triplets, which would make the score alot more complicated than how it is now. there are 2 kicks in each bar, but it is still 6/8.

listen to this then (slowed down)

http://www.mikefoyle.com/100bpm.mp3


edit... to be fair actually we are both wrong... the logical time signature would be 12/16. 6/8 does work but isnt as logical as 12/16.. if u slow it down enough its made more clear.

anyway enough said on that topic for one night eh?

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Last edited by Mike_Foyle on Oct-27-2005 at 22:30

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle dude the time signiture is 6/8, how else can you explain the presence of 6 clear pulses per bar... if it was 4 4 then the only way this would be possible is using semi quaver triplets, which would make the score alot more complicated than how it is now. there are 2 kicks in each bar, but it is still 6/8. listen to this then (slowed down) http://www.mikefoyle.com/100bpm.mp3

its both... it is programmed in 6/8, for sure, to make it easier to program it. but you could also program it in a 4/4 signature, using triplets. you just did it in 6/8 because it was easier for you

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Kernkraft400 its both... it is programmed in 6/8, for sure, to make it easier to program it. but you could also program it in a 4/4 signature, using triplets. you just did it in 6/8 because it was easier for you

if the whole track uses triplets then the logical time signiture is not 4/4, its 12/16.. or 6/8... if one were to write a track which was in 4/4 and then add that little section in one might use triplets rather than changing the entire time signature.

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I'm very tempted to copy and paste my MSN convo with Mike but that would be cruel (in case you're wondering, no outcome was reached on which we both agreed but I did stop arguing the point about 20 mins before Mike did )

But basically I support the idea of it being subjective (what a boring result eh? crap end to a good argument!), based on how the phrasing feels to the listener... not what the easiest way to write it down is.

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Stu Cox |

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle if the whole track uses triplets then the logical time signiture is not 4/4, its 12/16.. or 6/8... if one were to write a track which was in 4/4 and then add that little section in one might use triplets rather than changing the entire time signature.

I agree... but this is only percussion so far. if there would be an additional "shuffle" bassline, and tricky timed melodies it would be more clear.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Kernkraft400 I agree... but this is only percussion so far. if there would be an additional "shuffle" bassline, and tricky timed melodies it would be more clear.

ok fair point, but as i sequenced it in 6/8, the rest of the track would be in 6/8 to. and as there is nothing but the percussion to base the time signature on, thats all u can base it on.

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