quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello but at the same time, that's exactly what's hurting us working djs i'll get shafted on a gig cause there's some kid that's been playing for 3 months who'll play for free so to save a couple bucks the promoter is going to book some kid who can barely mix vs giving their crowd a good show with a talented dj so whether or not you're good, every dj that plays out should be paid expect it, ask for it if you're not good enough to expect to be compensated properly for your effort and time invested in your craft, you shouldn't be playing out because hey, we all do it for the love, but music isn't free and more often than not, the person paying you is making more money than you think i hate to be so blunt, but it's the truth of the industry if you're not fighting to be ahead, you're falling behind

I hear what you are saying, but not every DJ that's willing to do it for free is some no talent clown who can barely mix a track. It's not always a matter of skill, it comes down to if you are established already or not. Also, yes we do invest a lot of time and money into this trade, but I know I would still be buying and mixing records regardless if I'm playing out somewhere or not. Most of us are going to spend the money and the time anyways, getting the opportunity to play out is a bonus.

i used to be among the pack that would play any gig for free...but there's something that people fail to think about.

if you start playing for free for some promoter...how are you going to ask for money the next time around? that promoter will just continue to look for free DJs then...especially if you did decent, then he'll think he can find other decent DJs for free and just give up on you.

have more respect for the occupation of a DJ...sure we all love the music and we all love spinning...but at the end of the day, it is an occupation.

start small, be it asking for small pay or free drinks from the bar, etc. but never let things slide because it will be that much harder to put your foot down the next time.

and dun be afraid to ask what your pay is, any decent promoter will have already worked out the budget for the dj fees, but won't necessarily tell you. just make sure you do so before the night begins. being stiffed is the worst feeling ever.

edit: as for how much, it depends on the city, venue, and the party. never spun out much in NYC, but i believe $50 for a starting DJ at a small party in a bar/lounge was what i heard. $100-200 for decently-known local DJs. dun quote me on the figures tho!

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Last edited by b i n k u n on Nov-04-2005 at 09:20

I've never seen DJing as an occupation. I DJ for fun, and if someone wants to let me play on a massive sound system using pro equipment to make people dance, I'm going to jump all over that. Getting paid is great too, but really how do you expect someone to pay you if they haven't seen your name on flyers, and have never seen you rock a dance floor. If nobody knows who you are and therefore you don't draw a crowd why should you get paid?

The situation is a Catch-22 either you play out places for little to no money to get your name out and build a fan base or you stay in your bedroom until someone decides you're worth paying $100 an hour even though nobody knows who you are.

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I think of it like the capitalism system, when people ask for you, you can start ask them money. The better you are, the more people come to see you, the more money you make. But again, 50$ a night would be great to start with (although I make more money at my job).

50$ pays a lot of songs (considering I'm spinning digital)

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when it comes down to establishing yourself
if you're great when you first start to play out, the word will catch and spread like wildfire

however, if you're not that great, that reputation can follow you for a bit until you really start proving yourself

that's why i said if you're not good enough to expect to be paid for playing out, even if it's a couple free drinks, something to compensate you for your time and effort
you shouldn't be playing out

save yourself, take some more time in the bedroom and playing house parties (those are key, i've played so many house parties while i was learning, it's mind-boggling)
and really hone your skills

then when you do play out, blow everyone away, and it'll catch like wildfire

i found the best way to learn is to constantly be recording yourself and picking apart your mixes

litterally, the only music you should be listening to for the fist while are your own mixes
and just have them on repeat, constantly go over them

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i DJed one night for free for the promoter so he could get a look at me and how the crowd reacted to my set. after that he offered me a regular spot but admitted the money would be crappy to start off with because no1 knew me. he started me on £60 / nite. i told him i didnt mind what money i was on, as long as i made enuff to keep up with buying new records. he laffed and said "NEVER say that to a promoter even if u mean it because they'll pay you peanuts then"

he never did that with me but he earned my respect because he was always upfront with me. definatly a rare breed for a promoter!

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i agree with mr. Morello on this one. i for one am most likely never gonna play out though, because that's not really something i want to do. i just play for fun for myself and never expect to be in a situation where i'm paid to spin (i have other sources of income), but if i'd ever spin in a club/bar/event i sure as hell wouldn't do it for free, no way. then someone would be making money off you and you wouldn't get anything. that's pretty fucking stupid IMO.

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people do it for free because its a chance to prove yourself. and its experience. and both of them are valuable early on. if you expect to be paid you better be drawing crowds, and to do that you have to have something a little different. and a little special. otherwise forget it.

if you demanded money id just 1up you and play for free. and there are millions of others like me who would do the same. and to any promotor thats just a better deal. especially if they are competant. nobody turns up to see me anyway. im actually pretty crap at spinning. but i will make contacts. and i will get practice. and the knockbacks are good for you because you will pick yourself up and you will learn something from it.

really, its the same in music production, or begging for a job. you make fu.ck all until you can bring in a crowd or prove you are commercially viable to invest in. until then, better get your hands dirty and keep grinding away until you can meet the above criteria.

forget asking for money on the off. i have a uni degree and had to beg for a minimum wage job because i have little work experience. even then they only let me after i worked the first month for free. bastards. one of my uni friends only got employment after phoning every fu.cking day and turning up in a suit asking to do stuff. he had to work for free for a while too. but it shows you have character. and it shows you are willing to tough it out to prove you are capable enough to last in the industry. any employer who wouldnt take advantage of workers like this is a FOOL. come to dublin and see how the entire working class here are either illegal immigrants or foreign students working full time jobs for minimum wage on top of their law degrees.

welcome to the way of the world.

Last edited by Derivative on Nov-05-2005 at 23:26

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello i found the best way to learn is to constantly be recording yourself and picking apart your mixes litterally, the only music you should be listening to for the fist while are your own mixes and just have them on repeat, constantly go over them

And the hammer smacks the nail on the head.

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative people do it for free because its a chance to prove yourself. and its experience. and both of them are valuable early on. if you expect to be paid you better be drawing crowds, and to do that you have to have something a little different. and a little special. otherwise forget it. if you demanded money id just 1up you and play for free. and there are millions of others like me who would do the same. and to any promotor thats just a better deal. especially if they are competant. nobody turns up to see me anyway. im actually pretty crap at spinning. but i will make contacts. and i will get practice. and the knockbacks are good for you because you will pick yourself up and you will learn something from it. really, its the same in music production, or begging for a job. you make fu.ck all until you can bring in a crowd or prove you are commercially viable to invest in. until then, better get your hands dirty and keep grinding away until you can meet the above criteria. forget asking for money on the off. i have a uni degree and had to beg for a minimum wage job because i have little work experience. even then they only let me after i worked the first month for free. bastards. one of my uni friends only got employment after phoning every fu.cking day and turning up in a suit asking to do stuff. he had to work for free for a while too. but it shows you have character. and it shows you are willing to tough it out to prove you are capable enough to last in the industry. any employer who wouldnt take advantage of workers like this is a FOOL. come to dublin and see how the entire working class here are either illegal immigrants or foreign students working full time jobs for minimum wage on top of their law degrees. welcome to the way of the world.

wow! that's some fucked up shit. thank god the laws in finland are a bit better, here you don't have to work for free. i'd NEVER work for free, unless it were some charity thing or something like that. but i'd NEVER make anyone money for free. anyone who does is IMO an idiot. sorry, but that's the way i feel.
and i think that you should not be playing out unless you're good enough to get paid, just like Morello said.
and then there's the thing that the promoter shouldn't pay you unless you draw a crowd. i think that's one of the dumbest things ever said. think what would happen if you stopped playing? there would be no music, people would leave, promoter would get no money. therefore you are making the producer money, but aren't getting anything.

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