quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 We were shown those "Talking With Americans" shows from CBC with Rick Mercer back in OAC history, and everyone but myself gobbled it up with aplomb, and when I pointed out that nobody could possibly be this stupid and it's obviously a huge sham I was verbally denounced by a metric fuckton of idiots in the class.

Who knows, maybe those are real people and real answers... but the question I don't remember anybody asking was, how many Americans did he have to talk to before he could gather enough material for a single "episode"?

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IMO - the most important points of part 1:

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Peacekeeping has its benefits -- but without peacemaking to force all parties toward a resolution, it didn't work.

quote:

Is shouting abuse the way to be heard in Washington? Or is co-operating with the U.S. politically and, if it serves Canada's interests, militarily a better way to proceed? It (co-operation) might still work in a very different but no less dangerous world.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut For one thing, because Canadians spend a lot more time talking about (and bashing) Americans than Americans do Canadians. It is OK to -be- ignorant... it is not OK to choose to -remain- ignorant. While there may be some, even many Americans who are assholes and thumb their noses at Canada and Canadians, I think most just haven't had occasion or cause to learn anything about this country, whereas we in Canada are bombarded with news about the U.S. every minute of every day. I'm not defending Americans who bash Canada, I just don't believe they exist in the numbers you're implying. In fact I wonder if you've really met that many, or if you're just basing that claim on the same myths that they are trying to dispel. I would rather deal with the average American's ignorance about Canada than the average Canadian's unfounded smug sense of moral superiority toward Americans.

It is true we are bombarded by news from the US everyday but imo its not only the US. We do a good job at covering world news where if you go to the US you would rarely see anything about Canada.(or even other places in the world) why? cause they choose to focus mostly on themselves/news that effects them. (Tune into CNN and listen to that garbage)

They do exist in pretty large numbers. I dont agree that most of them know lots about this country. Ive traveled to the states many times and while some know some stuff , many dont know much other then Canada is north of them . I even see it on various message boards I frequent.

Im not saying that no people exist in the US that know stuff about this country. I just think that article is basically a shot at our military more then "myths" . We already know our military is lacking and its only thanks to our govt not wanting to spend money on it.

Many Americans think they are better then us, so in a way this is something many have chosen to latch onto and proclaim they are better at then people from the US. I dont necessarly agree with it , but I see where its come from. We are constantly being told how inferior we are to the states. Partially true, and false.

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quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Is shouting abuse the way to be heard in Washington? Or is co-operating with the U.S. politically and, if it serves Canada's interests, militarily a better way to proceed? It (co-operation) might still work in a very different but no less dangerous world.

you thnk Washington listens to the public here? Martin has a pretty good relationship with Bush...though he is standing ground on issues he doesnt agree with.

Our military does help from time to time , and when it can. The years of lack of funding has screwed it over though, so again . All this article is to me is a poke at our military which obviously needs more $$ invested.

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Originally posted by Euphorica I just think that article is basically a shot at our military more then "myths" . We already know our military is lacking and its only thanks to our govt not wanting to spend money on it.

While that was a point it goes a lot deeper than just a lack of funding.
There is a choking, cerebral melancholy in this country that is palpatable at the best of times.

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As pointed out in the original, this is a 5-part series and that was just part 1. The first myth is that of American "imperialism" and how they're always "starting wars".

Canadians think they're taking the moral high ground by calling themselves "peacekeepers", but the whole point of this article was that someone had to make the peace first. Someone had to do the dirty work, someone had to spend the money and send in the troops, and someone had to absorb all of the hippie flak and political fallout - and that someone has almost invariably been the USA.

This has nothing to do with our lack of defense spending, although that is a huge problem in and of itself. The point here is that ever since we started calling ourselves "peacekeepers" and cutting away at the military budget, our national efforts have done little if anything to promote world peace. Despite all of the American "warmongering", the world is a far safer place today than it was 50 years ago, and that is largely because we don't have to worry anymore about getting attacked by Germany, Japan, or the former USSR - and overall tension abroad is much lower in places like Panama, Korea, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and yes, even Iraq. Sure, there are still some threats, like North Korea and Iran, but the belief that those threats exist due to American foreign policy is an utter delusion. If anything, that's probably the reason they haven't already made their move!

The fact that we should be spending more money on our own military is besides the point; we can stand on a pedestal all we want and preach peace to the Americans, but it's the ass-kicking they've dealt out to the world's bullies that has really brought the level of peace to the world which we see today. If we want the Americans to listen to us and give a shit about what we believe, then perhaps we should show them the same courtesy.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Someone had to do the dirty work, someone had to spend the money and send in the troops, and someone had to absorb all of the hippie flak and political fallout - and that someone has almost invariably been the USA. Despite all of the American "warmongering", the world is a far safer place today than it was 50 years ago, and that is largely because we don't have to worry anymore about getting attacked by Germany, Japan, or the former USSR - and overall tension abroad is much lower in places like Panama, Korea, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and yes, even Iraq. Sure, there are still some threats, like North Korea and Iran, but the belief that those threats exist due to American foreign policy is an utter delusion. If anything, that's probably the reason they haven't already made their move! but it's the ass-kicking they've dealt out to the world's bullies that has really brought the level of peace to the world which we see today.

wow, just ...wow

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Canadians don't seem to understand that if the U.S. wanted to stop trading with us, in a snap, we'd be totally screwed.

you are so wrong.

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Originally posted by malek you are so wrong.

Oh? Could you elaborate please? Considering how much we export to the States, I think we would be screwed if all of the sudden they decided to cut off all trade with us.

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Nov-14-2005 at 06:22

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Oh? Could you elaborate please? Considering how much we export to the States, I think we would be screwed if all of the sudden they decided to cut off all trade with us.

trade goes both way, they buy roughly a third of our production, we buy roughly 20% of theirs.

Let me be more direct, the auto industry in Ontario is composed mainly of the big american three auto makers. They send 90% of their production to the US. They're building cars in Ontario because it cost them less, they would be one of the many many lobbies in the US to be for trade.

The US benefits greatly from this trade and they're not doing it out of pity.

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I will have to give you more precise numbers about the trade levels between the two countries, something this morning tells me I'm wrong but I'm not far off.

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Originally posted by malek trade goes both way, they buy roughly a third of our production, we buy roughly 20% of theirs. Let me be more direct, the auto industry in Ontario is composed mainly of the big american three auto makers. They send 90% of their production to the US. They're building cars in Ontario because it cost them less, they would be one of the many many lobbies in the US to be for trade. The US benefits greatly from this trade and they're not doing it out of pity.

You're right about that, but we'd suffer a lot more than they would. Over 80% of our exports go to the States, and we're not even the number 1 exporter to them; that's a lot of money to be lost.