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Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ Trancer-X: Dude, your inbox is full and I can't PM you.

LOL

Sorry man, I guess I need a bigger inbox.

Give me a minute and I'll clean it out.

Okay, let me rephrase things because I know "war" is a very subjective and loaded term now-a-days.

Both post-military defeat, forced transition governments.

I guess the burning question is what motivation is behind installing a democracy...

I guess the burning question is what motivation is behind installing a democracy...

I guess the burning question is what the motivation behind installing a democracy is...

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Okay, let me rephrase things because I know "war" is a very subjective and loaded term now-a-days. Both post-military defeat, forced transition governments.

How can you have a fully functioning democracy when the people are as ethno-politically divided as they are in Iraq? I personally think that it would be better to let each faction have their own territory first and then try and give Democracy a go. Each individual territory could vote for a democratically elected official (governor?) to represent them.


BTW - did you know that:

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the Kurds were promised their own country under the terms of the 1920 Treaty of Sevres, only to find the offer rescinded under the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne. (...)

and

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In October 1991, the government of Iraq voluntarily withdrew its civil administration and the citizens of the Kurdish safe haven were left to govern themselves. Elections were held in May 1992 and the Kurdistan National Assembly (KNA) and the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) were created. The Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) entered into an equal power-sharing arrangement, with five of the 105 KNA seats allocated to members of the Assyrian-Chaldean Christian community. Turkomans boycotted the election, although efforts were made to include representatives from all ethnic and religious communities. Participatory processes were instituted to develop experience with the requirements, and systems and procedures of democracy. These elections were deemed to have been free and fair by international observers.(5) Regional governance has been based on the March 1970 Autonomy Agreement with Iraq. Four provinces were established, each headed by a governor. The regional government, headed by a prime minister with a cabinet of ministers, was established in the regional capital of Erbil. But the 50-50 power-sharing arrangement broke down within two years. Today, the Kurdish safe haven is governed in two separate parts, each by one of the two main parties (KDP and PUK). Efforts have been on-going to find how to integrate the two administrations. Despite this disappointment, there have been some more positive developments. Free and fair local elections, under international observation, were conducted in dozens of municipalities in 2000 and 2001 in the KDP and PUK areas. For the first time since 1994, the KNA convened in its entirety in Erbil on October 4, 2002. The reconvening of the KNA is a clear indication of the growing cooperation between the KDP and PUK, particularly in their dealings with the Bush administration and US Congress, as well as with states in the region and Europe. In particular, the KDP and PUK are unified in asserting the Kurdish right to self-determination in a future democratic Iraq in which they call for Iraqi Kurdistan entering into a federal relationship with the central government under a new constitutional arrangement. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/middle_east/EA21Ak03.html

sorry if this was a little sloppy but I'm in a hurry

Sure you can. Every democracy that has ever existed was installed at one point or another.

Most people will rationalize any government after living under it long enough. The rest will be marginalized, eliminated, or otherwise swept under the rug regardless of the particular system being used.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X [color=#33ccff]How can you have a fully functioning democracy when the people are as ethno-politically divided as they are in Iraq?

Ever looked at the U.S.? About the most ethnically diverse society I have ever seen. And at least a decently functioning Democracy at the very worst.

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Originally posted by Shakka Ever looked at the U.S.? About the most ethnically diverse society I have ever seen. And at least a decently functioning Democracy at the very worst.

Or Canada for that matter...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Japan and West Germany worked out pretty well.

They had history of democracy in past, and more important thing is that the people in the country mentioned believed in Democracy.

But in Iraq and midlle eastern countries they dont believe in democracy, they never had democracy, they never want democracy. Noone can force its ideology and its thinking on others.

Simply because democracy is good for you dosent means its good for everyone.

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Originally posted by Purple But in Iraq and midlle eastern countries they dont believe in democracy, they never had democracy, they never want democracy. Noone can force its ideology and its thinking on others.

While I will concede that it's never easy to foretell what somone else 'wants', I think it's a bit overreaching to say "They never want democracy." How do you know? How about "They've never tasted Democracy." How many countries that have successfully democratized have gone on to revert to a totalitarian dictatorship? Or have devolved back into something else? I think that given the chance, most people would prefer to have a vote on policies that dictate how they live their lives. Particularly in the long-run.