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T-Soma
The Sky Was Pink...



Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Chair

Rebirth 2 is ment to replicate a 303 isnt it?
I think some one posted that it was free for download a while ago.
You could make some basslines then export but thats abit of a pain.
Atleast its free.

Old Post Dec-10-2005 04:22  Australia
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Derivative
Bipolar Bear



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin

quote:
303 clones tend to sound more like goa as far as I'm concerned which is cool, but dont really give that low end oomph from the ones I've messed around with.


but protoculture, fatali, space cat and beathackers are not goa trance.

also you are doing something wrong if a 303 clone cannot put out low end oomp. you can devastate all with audiorealism bassline when you send it through some valves.

Old Post Dec-10-2005 13:28  Ireland
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greenskydj
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Mankato, USA

This is a bassline made with ABL. I've been listening to all the responses. I'm trying to get the hang of using effects. I don't have monitors or decent headphones really, so I'd like to know if it sounds fine and if the bass carries enough oomph to make everyone happy. The perc is a loop that's been fx twisted 9 ways to sunday, but not chopped, ending up still kinda sounding normal.

file called Psy I bassline test

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pag...m?bandID=446461


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Old Post Dec-10-2005 17:00  United States
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Axolotyl
hired goon



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: atoms are not things they are possibilities

quote:
Originally posted by Derivative
but protoculture, fatali, space cat and beathackers are not goa trance.

also you are doing something wrong if a 303 clone cannot put out low end oomp. you can devastate all with audiorealism bassline when you send it through some valves.


Yeah fair enough, with enough processing, you can get anything to sound good. I guess a better distription would be that 303s tend to give a more synthetic feel? Whereas VB-1 tends to give a slightly more bass guitar feel. All the South african producers for example use VB-1 Rinkadink, Shift, Broken Toy.. I just tend to prefer that sound a bit more myself.


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Old Post Dec-11-2005 00:50  Australia
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thoughtlessjex
Yakkity Yak



Registered: May 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina

quote:
Originally posted by greenskydj
This is a bassline made with ABL. I've been listening to all the responses. I'm trying to get the hang of using effects. I don't have monitors or decent headphones really, so I'd like to know if it sounds fine and if the bass carries enough oomph to make everyone happy. The perc is a loop that's been fx twisted 9 ways to sunday, but not chopped, ending up still kinda sounding normal.

There's almost no low end in that bass-line. You should process it a bit more to get more oomph. Other than that, it's pretty nice.


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Old Post Dec-11-2005 02:26  United States
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The Drow
Super Programmer



Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Israel

There are types of basslines:
1) Deep basslines: They are full of reso and punch. They take lots of space in the mix and fill up the track.
2) Subs: Airy & really low.
3) Rolling: Basicly it's the kbbbkbbbkbbbkbbb but you can make intervals and change, and do what ever you want. Those kind of basslines are usually clicky.
4) Other: Any other bassline that you can think of can work here.
5) 303ed: Well, as it says...


Omer


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Old Post Dec-11-2005 12:08  Israel
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nhibberd
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

You can replicate a 303 with just abut any bass sound if you add the right effects. Try finding a filter with autowah function and put it on a high feedback BP or formant setting with the autowah cutting down sharply. After that a good quality distortion or overdrive. Maybe a light metalizer and/or flanger and hey presto, you have a 303 sound you can call your own.

kind regards,

Charlie Darwin


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Review Latest Track; Charlie Delta - Then The Days Where Long

Music is as universal to people as breathing. We've probably been at it since before we even started talking. Immaging two cavemen smashing away at a peace of flint to make a spearhead. It wouldn't take long for them to learn te synchronise the sound. And there you have it, the words first percussive band.

Music has survived wars, famines, the plague and many other things and has evolved with man across many cultures. Dance music is just the next step in the evolutionary chain. My guess is that it will probably be with us untill we are extinced.

Old Post Dec-11-2005 17:33  Netherlands
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cybernetica
Captain Insano



Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Cologne, Germany

well.. I think I got something for you

3 different basslines in 1 file:
- Full On Bass
- dark, dominant rolling bass
- Deep Darkpsy Bass

the mp3 file here.
http://s54.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...5F156VJ2F4Q8Y36

.flp project file here...
http://s54.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...GM37G2MXTU6Z90W

you will need
- ReFX Vanguard (for the bass)
- Anwida Soft C1X Compressor
- Anwida L1 Limiter
- SideKick2 (available here: http://www.twistedlemon.nl/ )
for the best quality


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homepage: http://www.cybernetika.de

Old Post Dec-11-2005 18:48 
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nhibberd
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

For a more advanced KBBB format you could try a;

K
BBBB

format with the kick and bass through the same compressor. You'll hardly hear the first B but it will add to the kick nicely.


___________________
PLEASE RETURN REVIEWS!
C.D.M.P. Website
Review Latest Track; Charlie Delta - Then The Days Where Long

Music is as universal to people as breathing. We've probably been at it since before we even started talking. Immaging two cavemen smashing away at a peace of flint to make a spearhead. It wouldn't take long for them to learn te synchronise the sound. And there you have it, the words first percussive band.

Music has survived wars, famines, the plague and many other things and has evolved with man across many cultures. Dance music is just the next step in the evolutionary chain. My guess is that it will probably be with us untill we are extinced.

Old Post Dec-11-2005 19:04  Netherlands
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Derivative
Bipolar Bear



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin

quote:
You can replicate a 303 with just abut any bass sound if you add the right effects. Try finding a filter with autowah function and put it on a high feedback BP or formant setting with the autowah cutting down sharply. After that a good quality distortion or overdrive. Maybe a light metalizer and/or flanger and hey presto, you have a 303 sound you can call your own.


the principle is easy but in practice it is very difficult to replicate the sound of a 303 exactly. it should be easy because its just a single oscillator (saw/square) with a simple amp decay envelope, fed through to a saturated, resonant 3 pole filter. and thats it.

problems occur when trying to copy the specifics.

firstly, portmento on a tb-303 is somewhere between linear and exponential, is affected by amplitude envelope decay and only glides once. i.e. you cannot slide up and down and do so repeatedly.

secondly, the saw wave on a tb-303 is inverted and is very smooth. the square wave, if i recall correctly, isnt really a pure square (partly why every teebee clone has failed to accurate emulate the square wave). i think it is 2 rectified saws (???) or a rectified saw/square. dont quote me on that but its definitely not a pure square.

either way, the only synths i have managed to come close to emulating the square wave is an access virus b and (to some extent) linplug albino - both of which allow you to mix waveforms within themselves. for the virus i had to mix a saw and square using oscillator 2 and mix in a bit of pure sine on oscillator 1 just to emulate the characteristics of the single 303 square wave oscillator. the saw wave was easier to emulate and i got almost exactly there using a mix of mostly saw with a bit of sine on oscillator 2 then mixing it in with oscillator 1 set to pure sine.

thirdly, the filter is a heavily saturated 18 dB/octave 3 pole jobbie. so if you dont have a synth that can switch to a 3 pole filter, or emulate a 3 pole filter, then you are out of luck.

fourthly, replicating some of the quirks of analogue instruments is very difficult. 303s have unstable tuning. the pre filtered output distorts when you increase the volume above 8/10. the attack transient is non linear and it does not start isntantly (i.e. there is a short attack phase). additionally the built in 303 analogue distortion is difficult to emulate.

so far i have made a very close emulation of a 303 (without distortion) using an access virus b. this is probably the only synth i have used that is capable of doing so since it can:

1) mix oscillator waveforms
2) emulate a 3 pole filter (enable series 6 for a 4 pole and 2 pole filter connected in series, then turn filter balance to 3 or 9 o'clock)
3) saturate the filter in a variety of ways
4) allow you to add movement and randomness to the sound with its mod matrix which helps when trying to recreate instable tuning to make it seem more analogue

the only thing that cannot be done is a perfect emulation of the 303 portmento behaviour, since the virus doesnt have very extensive portmento editing features. and personally speaking, the attack transient on the 303, which i have never been able to get right. despite all my attempts at recursively modulating both amp/filter envelopes.

additionally, you will never truly be able to replicate the programming method of a 303 without using a synth that has a step sequencer, and even if you did have that, it probably wouldnt be able to emulate portmento slides and accents properly. you cant do the step sequencer on the virus but you can build slides and accents - you just need to use 3 separate patches for each and swap between them in multimode (pain in the arse).

either way, this is my best attempt:

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


(note: its the second sound in. apologies if the tonal balance is off on all the sounds - since moving to dublin i no longer have monitors)

and it is still a little bit off. as a side note, alot of the lead instrument sounds in psytrance are based on 303 sounds - this example is part of the melody in the fatali tune: city of god [alchemy records]. alot of the squelchy sounds you can hear in LSD, or Silicon Sound or half of Space Cat's tunes are also usually from a 303. amazing how many different types of sounds you can get from an old monophonic synth.

my square wave emulation is not as good and i dont want to put it out yet because its a dead giveaway. audiorealism bassline is still the most accurate digital recreation of a 303 to my ears, both in terms of its saw and square. although the saw is closer than the square. the filter isnt quite right yet but heres hoping the AR guys nail it in a future update.

the bottomline is that creating 303 sounds on a real 303 is laughably easy - it really is a case of fumbling the cutoff and resonance pots and pressing record.

recreating 303 type sounds on digital instruments varies from difficult to impossible depending on the digital synth you use. you can make half arsed 303 type sounds on alot of synths that can generate a saw or a square wave but they only sound like a 303 up until you actually listen to it next to a real 303. then you realise its miles off. its the same deal with supersaws. you think its easy to make them on synths other than a JP and they do sound supersaw'ish. until you size yours up next to the real thing and realise they sound nothing like each other.

Old Post Dec-11-2005 19:29  Ireland
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Magnus
I'm getting old



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA

Thats a pretty good one there cybernetica. This is a very interesting thread. The psybassline is a tricky one indeed. I spent hours a while back trying my best to get it down and here is what I was able to come up with. I'm curious to know what you think. Its as close as I've been able to come.

Magnus Psybassline

A lot of the psy people I know use Realism Bassline, VB1, and EnergyPro.


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Old Post Dec-12-2005 01:25 
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luizmenezesjr
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Campinas, SP

You can use the
K
B B B B

sequence, but you should put a sidecompressor (I'm using the TC Compressor) on the bass...

In my songs i'm using this type of configuration, but it depends of the size of the kick... If the kick is short, the end of the first Bass note will be heard, but if the kick is long you have to take care with compressor configuration, because you may lost the other bass notes (by example an high release)...

You can also check my 2 song until now on:
www.eletronz.com


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Campinas/SP - Brazil
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http://www.eletronz.com

Old Post Dec-12-2005 10:29  Brazil
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