quote:

Originally posted by torontobarfly are the tourism stats out yet for 2005? in 2004 only 16% of all toronto tourists were americans and and a big chunk of them came to this city to watch their yankees spank the blue jays several weekends of the year...highly doubt planet hollywood closing will affect our toursim very much....

im not saying it's closing will affect tourism... im saying lack of tourism has affected it. Along with everything else.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 im not saying it's closing will affect tourism... im saying lack of tourism has affected it. Along with everything else.

but is tourism up or down? thats why i was asking for the stats...you cant just say tourism is down without backing it up...in 2004 tourism was up, i havent seen any stats yet for 2005...lots of other businesses close to planet hollywood are doing quite well...does tourism have anything to do with it or has the place just worn out its welcome...

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"There are no boring places, only boring people"

I would never come to Toronto as a tourist, the city is a shit hole, canada has way more to offer tourists (montreal, vancouver, vancouver island etc...). Getting around TO is a bitch, and besides it has one of the worst airports ever, esp if youre not flying air canada. Plus the recent gun crime increase im sure has scared a few people away.

the only decent thing in the area is niagara falls.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ... Imagine if straight white guys had parties where they exposed themselves on the street or shot each other at parades? It would be game over. Im not against gay pride or caribana at all. Im just saying that because they are special interests they get left alone. Which is a sad commentary on the double standard that exists in 2006.

Don't even bring up Pride...it's a slam-dunk boon to the city and ALL people here should at the very least appreciate that fact.

It's not a double standard...it's a virtually hassle-free money maker for the city and THAT is a huge reason why it's left alone.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 ... gay pride wasnt always so big. I suspect part of the reason it has caught on with mainstream is because most other outlets have been shut down so its the one venue a year where people can let loose since politicians wont dare touch it. i honestly think our uptight laws are most of the reason why torontonians themselves are uptight.

Pride became big in part because other attractions are gone? Where is the logic in that? To what past events were there where people "let loose" where they now only do so at Pride?

I suppose that the very nature of it being inclusive, hassle-free, that is has progressively become better organized/promted, and that society has become more and more tolerant are all secondary to other attractions being gone?

There is *no doubt* a political benefit enjoyed by the gay community...but to suggest it's a major reason for Pride being "left alone" is to also ignore the very substantial tourism and revenue benefits it provides.

Forget Pride...how many gay people actually MOVE INTO THE CITY because of the environment that is promoted and protected here and which is internationally promoted via Pride week? That's not just tourism dollars...that's potentially years, or a lifetime, of tax revenue for the city, province and even the country! Look at the big picture...

IMHO, the death of a shithole like Planet Hollywood and the death of the rave scene are not an indication of the state of Toronto's tourism. Corporate conventions/trade shows alone probably bring in 100 times the money the rave scene ever did. Hasn't Planet Hollywood been losing money all over the place, not just here?

tourism is down... no doubt about it. Maybe 05 stats will show that its up a bit or down a bit but overall its down significantly since the 90s for all the reasons i listed above.

The 90s had a completely different kind of government (provicially and municipally) and a completely different way of thinking.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Don't even bring up Pride...it's a slam-dunk boon to the city and ALL people here should at the very least appreciate that fact. It's not a double standard...it's a virtually hassle-free money maker for the city and THAT is a huge reason why it's left alone. Pride became big in part because other attractions are gone? Where is the logic in that? To what past events were there where people "let loose" where they now only do so at Pride? I suppose that the very nature of it being inclusive, hassle-free, that is has progressively become better organized/promted, and that society has become more and more tolerant are all secondary to other attractions being gone? There is *no doubt* a political benefit enjoyed by the gay community...but to suggest it's a major reason for Pride being "left alone" is to also ignore the very substantial tourism and revenue benefits it provides. Forget Pride...how many gay people actually MOVE INTO THE CITY because of the environment that is promoted and protected here and which is internationally promoted via Pride week? That's not just tourism dollars...that's potentially years, or a lifetime, of tax revenue for the city, province and even the country! Look at the big picture... IMHO, the death of a shithole like Planet Hollywood and the death of the rave scene are not an indication of the state of Toronto's tourism. Corporate conventions/trade shows alone probably bring in 100 times the money the rave scene ever did. Hasn't Planet Hollywood been losing money all over the place, not just here?

Well you even admitted that pride enjoys special status. And im glad the pride parties happen every year. Im just upset that the same considerations cant be made for all other events. This city stifles fun at every corner unless a special interest is involved and thats WRONG

raves and such were just as hassle free until some idiot in the media decided they would make it that week's exposé. But it's easy for politicians to be the "saviours" of suburban white kids from evil because it's politically expedient, there are no accusations of racism etc, and soccer moms feel good knowing that their politician is doing something

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 tourism is down... no doubt about it. Maybe 05 stats will show that its up a bit or down a bit but overall its down significantly since the 90s for all the reasons i listed above. The 90s had a completely different kind of government (provicially and municipally) and a completely different way of thinking.

how did we suddenly get into the 90's,lol....i was asking about 05 stats which you say are down, no doubt about it, but you also say maybe they're up?? yer losing me here...

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"There are no boring places, only boring people"

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 left alone.

left alone?

Pride most certainly does not get
'left alone' the commitee fights year long to get the funding and permits to make this event happen as well as keep it free.
and even when it does go off. the bars and clubs get harrassed by the police and alcohol and gaming officers more so on pride saturday than they do any other day of the year.

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Originally posted by Halycon left alone? Pride most certainly does not get 'left alone' the commitee fights year long to get the funding and permits to make this event happen as well as keep it free. and even when it does go off. the bars and clubs get harrassed by the police and alcohol and gaming officers more so on pride saturday than they do any other day of the year.

thats just sad..

i wish toronto would get the pickle out of its ass (yeah its a bad metaphor for this topic but it had to be said LOL)

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt to other events...but Pride has a proven track record, so I think it deserves the status it currently enjoys.

If the city is unwilling to give that chance to other events, that's not necessarily a double standard...Pride has a proven track record of being hassle-free and of being fairly self-sufficient. Fault the city for now being overly strict...but don't call it a double standard.

Is it a double standard that Guv operates trouble-free but good luck to anyone else trying to start up a super club? I don't think so. When you "change the rules", the status quo often gets left alone because there is little justification for doing otherwise. Allegation of police palm-greasing aside, Guv is not a "special interest" group.

i.e. it's one thing to withold things in the present and future...quite another to take away what already exists.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the city needs to be better promoted...I just don't think it's a case of double standards that favour special interest groups.

dont tell me that years ago before gay pride was mainstream that when they tried to shut down various events it wasnt almost political suicide.

politicians wont go near it now. Sure they may over regulate the hell out of it. But this is canada, its what we do best. But they will never ban it like they have with many other events.

The city is unwilling to give a chance to other events because we are an uptight overly conservative bunch of nimrods who like to think we are liberal thinking but really arent.

The government shouldnt even be in the business of deciding which events are good and which arent. They should only make sure that the event meets fire code etc. The end.

I hate how our government has become the ultimate decider of cultural event, festival, radio and tv station formats etc...

its such bullcrap

sure give a permit to a stones concert because "we like the rolling stones" but try to have a huge rave there and it would be game over.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill