quote:

Originally posted by occrider I think part of it is justice and part of it is to provide an incentive to not do something.

I just don't think that based solely on failing to pay taxes, jailtime is appropriate. Shouldn't that form of punishment be reserved for people who pose a physically dangerous threat to the public? I think there should be a different form of punishment for white collar crimes, such as larger fees that have to be paid by a certain time.

Why can't Richard Hatch just be fined twice or three times as much of his taxes he didn't pay, and forced to work at McDonald's (or maybe something that benefits society more) to pay it off, while keeping close monitor on his actions to ensure he doesn't commit the same crime?

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Originally posted by occrider Yea. Same with the blacks, the mexicans, and the jews. They should all go to jail. Hey didn't I see you at the last klan rally?

I dont think blacks, Mexicans and Jews should go to jail. There is a difference between then and gays.

I didnt go last night, I was too busy

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Originally posted by Jake Benson I just don't think that based solely on failing to pay taxes, jailtime is appropriate. Shouldn't that form of punishment be reserved for people who pose a physically dangerous threat to the public? I think there should be a different form of punishment for white collar crimes, such as larger fees that have to be paid by a certain time. Why can't Richard Hatch just be fined twice or three times as much of his taxes he didn't pay, and forced to work at McDonald's (or maybe something that benefits society more) to pay it off, while keeping close monitor on his actions to ensure he doesn't commit the same crime?

So you don't think those who perpetrated the enron scanadal should go to jail? People who committ fraud go to jail all the time and they didn't physically hurt anyone. What if I made sure nobody was home before I committed burglarly? What if I'm so incompetant that I only manage to embezzle $20 from my company ... I suppose that I can pay $60 and I'm off the hook because nobody was hurt? It's all theft punishable by the standards dictated by society. If the punishment is unreasonable than it's more likely than not that you have plenty of supporters on your side such that you could change the law.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Should this kind of crime result in jail time? After all, he didn't do anything that directly hurt anyone and he's not violent. Is it worth tax payers' money to keep him behind bars just because he didn't pay taxes?

d00d.....he's gay!

he'll probably enjoy being locked up with hundreds of men.

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quote:

Originally posted by occrider So you don't think those who perpetrated the enron scanadal should go to jail? People who committ fraud go to jail all the time and they didn't physically hurt anyone. What if I made sure nobody was home before I committed burglarly? What if I'm so incompetant that I only manage to embezzle $20 from my company ... I suppose that I can pay $60 and I'm off the hook because nobody was hurt? It's all theft punishable by the standards dictated by society. If the punishment is unreasonable than it's more likely than not that you have plenty of supporters on your side such that you could change the law.

I interpret your argument for sending someone to jail for a limited period (i.e. not for life), is to keep up a sense of "justice is being served"/"one should behave" in the population. However, I think that message can be sent in other ways that prison. The Enron guys, for instance, could have been sent to do community service for a couple of years (besides being heavily fined). I think the size of a fine could easily be set by a judge according to the damage done by the offender and his or her financial status - just as a judge is capable of measuring out the time an offender is going to spend in jail today. If the fines are heavy enough and the community service terrible enough, it would be a fine deterrent, I think. At the same time society would actually benefit financially from the punishment, rather than suffer from it.
IMO prison should be a corrective facility for first time felons only. The prison would act as a protection for society while the criminal is being rehabilitated. Second time felons would be given the choice of death or being shipped off to some remote island.

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Originally posted by trancaholic Second time felons would be given the choice of death or being shipped off to some remote island.

Awesome!! Just like no espace, I loved that movie!

I'm totally in

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Originally posted by occrider So you don't think those who perpetrated the enron scanadal should go to jail?

Sure! I think they should be in a position where they work to pay back the people/government for what they did. They should work hard labor for the rest of their lives to earn so much money just to give it all back as punishment. It's better for the economy than throwing them in an institution that I believe should have been designed solely for keeping dangerous criminals away from the public.

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People who committ fraud go to jail all the time and they didn't physically hurt anyone. What if I made sure nobody was home before I committed burglarly? What if I'm so incompetant that I only manage to embezzle $20 from my company ... I suppose that I can pay $60 and I'm off the hook because nobody was hurt? It's all theft punishable by the standards dictated by society.

I can agree with you do some extent that jailtime should be appropriate for these kind of behaviors (including the Enron scandal). But still, I think "jail" should be reserved for physically dangerous people and those who steal, commit fraud, evade taxes, should have some other form of punishment. Or to compromise with you, people who commit those kind of crimes should be allocated to an insitution separate from those who are physically dangerous.

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If the punishment is unreasonable than it's more likely than not that you have plenty of supporters on your side such that you could change the law.

My statement regarding punishment does not imply that my opinion reflects the majority. Likewise, I'm sure you can agree with me that not all the rules, regulations and bans in the United States are based of logic and reason. 60 years ago, the majority were not for equal rights for black people. Was that reasonable? Likewise, today the minority is for equal rights for gay people (only 17 states have a ban against discrimination against gays in the workplace). Does that make the minority unreasonable? Lastly, I'm not here with an intent to change the law (at least not now), I'm just here to give my opinion and start discussions.

Last edited by Jake Benson on Jan-28-2006 at 12:00

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange d00d.....he's gay! he'll probably enjoy being locked up with hundreds of men.

So, maybe that's not a punishment for him, but more of a paradise?

And I completely agree with trancaholic. Sorry for restating the same thing you said, but when I replied I hadn't looked on page 2 yet.

why not? we would send anybody who doesn't pay their taxes to jail.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid why not? we would send anybody who doesn't pay their taxes to jail.

Because our jails are overcrowded and they probably serve us better when they're housing violent criminals that pose a threat to society.

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Originally posted by Shakka Because our jails are overcrowded and they probably serve us better when they're housing violent criminals that pose a threat to society.

what why are you defending this guy...lemme guess you are in a similar situation but you are not stupid enough like this guy to get caught? The guy is stupid he should be punished by going to jail.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid what why are you defending this guy...lemme guess you are in a similar situation but you are not stupid enough like this guy to get caught? The guy is stupid he should be punished by going to jail.

Stupidity has nothing to do with Shakka's counter-argument and a possible personal bias is superfluous. Try addressing his actual argument instead of committing a couple of painfully obvious fallacies. Thanks.