the election is done...the CPC won.

are you going to cry about them not getting a majority (more Harper's ineffective leadership than this ONE thing being covered up) or are you going to get on his case to follow through on his promised changes (which he's already NOT doing thanks to the "day 1 drama").

If this single item did cost them a majority, it would have been out of a very acute, short-term backlash that occurred right before election day...not because this one event is so horrific that voters would punish the Liberals to the extent of voting in a majority CPC gov't. It's time-senstive, that's it.

It would have been an opportunistic majority...so stop insinuating that the democratic system was abused, because that's just crap (and it's making excuses for Harper and the CPC's inability to secure a majority win amidst all of the other scandal and corruption).

It's time to start judging Harper and CPC...continuing to bash the Liberals isn't pointless, but it's also not improving the country. The people will only stand so long for an incoming gov't that spends it's time pointing out the faults of the previous one.

Ask McGuinty how far he got by constantly complaining about how the outgoing provincial Conservatives supposedly misrepresented the books while himself doing virtually nothing...

if criminal acts were committed then they need to be dealt with. It's that simple.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

^^^ would witholding such information be an criminal act...or an unethical one?

(I'm asking...becuase I don't know)

i.e. if it's unethical and Martin/whoever are pulled before a committee, etc. etc. etc., that's great...but it doesn't accomplish much.

if it's illegal to have done so, fine, punish whomever is responsbile.

I still don't think this would have (or should have) meant the difference between a majority/minority win for the CPC...and I don't think it should be a great focal point of the CPC when they've already got their own controversies to address.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT It's time to start judging Harper and CPC...continuing to bash the Liberals isn't pointless, but it's also not improving the country. The people will only stand so long for an incoming gov't that spends it's time pointing out the faults of the previous one.

...and we can't do that until the new government has finished cleaning house, which apparently, they're doing...

Their questions are quite valid...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

^^^ they sure are.

I just take issue with someone implying that this single item may have (and if it would have, if it even *should* have) resulted in a majority win for the CPC.

It's would have been an unfortunate, opportunistic majority that occured due to the fact that this info would have been released days before the election.

no one's vote should be cast in the heat of the moment...given that this issue pales in comparision to the other scandals, both in scope and in magnitude, if anyone actually changed their vote because of this, only days before the election, IMHO it would be a "vote of passion" rather than one based upon logic and consideration.

who really wants that (besides the incoming gov't whoever they would be, lol)

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT the election is done...the CPC won. are you going to cry about them not getting a majority (more Harper's ineffective leadership than this ONE thing being covered up)...

LOL ineffective? The only thing standing between Harper and a Majority were 3 Canadian cities that are scared to death of change (I wonder if Vancouver and Montreal also had Liberal mayors trying their damndest to scare their citizens into voting Liberal).

Harper is a more effective leader than Martin could ever dream of being (and that's saying a lot, we all know Martin has quite vivid and powerful dreams). In 4 years he's done what most people said couldn't be done ANY time in the near future. But I guess you could make the argument that Martin's leadership was just MORE ineffective, so touche in advance :P

He brought the PC and Alliance parties together to form a united right, and toppled the most succesfull political party in the Western world. You know why that is? Because, unlike Martin, Harper learns from his mistakes and actually WANTS to make things work, not just spout out empty rhetoric about fixing things (We've upped our funding from 4 billion over 4 years, to 10 billion over 10 years!!! GOOOO LIBERAL!).

The Emerson thing is hypocritical, the Fortier appointment to the senate as well, but that one is supposedly temporary according to Harper (in other words, if he's elected, he'll be removed from the Senate), plus Fortier doesn't get a vote in the commons, he's just in the cabinet helping get things done. I think both ministers will do a fine job, but it's something I'm now keeping an eye on. When the CPC vowed to clean up Government, I was worried about fiscal scandals, not an MP or two switching sides here and there, that shit happens ALL the time.

The smart move by Harper was getting it done and over with RIGHT AWAY. The public and media have very short memories, this will all blow over and within the next month or two, probably won't even register in mosts people's minds as being a problem at all. If nothing else, Harper's a brilliant strategist.

Personally I've never seen anything wrong with MPs switching sides, but it depends on the circumstances. Belinda switched to save the Liberals and for personal gain (give me a cabinet position and I'll save your party!), Emerson was invited over because Harper wanted an experienced Cabinet minister to represent Vancouver (ditto Montreal with the Fortier appointment, Toronto didn't need the same type of treatment, because there are a few GTA representatives that can handle things).

I'm just watching the news too, and I'm getting a HUGE kick out of all the Liberal voters who were more than happy to make excuses for Belinda DEMAND that Emerson step down, and calling this a "mockery of democracy". ROFL, love it when people get a taste of their own medicine!

quote:

Originally posted by Spam I'm just watching the news too, and I'm getting a HUGE kick out of all the Liberal voters who were more than happy to make excuses for Belinda DEMAND that Emerson step down, and calling this a "mockery of democracy". ROFL, love it when people get a taste of their own medicine!

but it seems liberals make more whiney noise. The belinda thing was over within a few days. These losers are planning sit ins!

LOL

I think its time i go do a sit in at belinda's

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

nice try guys...two wrongs don't make a right...and you're ignoring the over hypocrisy on the part of the CPC here.

if one party rips another for doing something, and it "blows over"...it doesn't follow that they can then turn around and do the same thing and expect no one to say shit.

in fact, it's WORSE that they did it after the fact because they CAMPAIGNED against that type of behaviour, while the Liberals made no apologies about it right from the start.

they both did something shady...but the CPC, by doing it now, is also a hypocrite.

Some Liberals are calling for his resignation, just as people called for Belinda's...more likely, and more reasonable, are the calls for him to give up his seat and have a by-election immediately called where he can run as a CPC.

what's interesting is that the CPC ran THIRD behind the NDP as well...and haven't won that riding for many many years...so while Belinda proved her critics wrong by handily winning her riding as a Liberal, is the CPC worried that Emerson would lose a by-election and make them look stupid?

you're damn right!

both cases are wrong but the difference in reactions is amusing.

The Liberals are making far greater noise about it. SOmebody even called him an idiot.

I do recall that when belinda was called an idiot, accusations of sexism flew.

Aaaah the joys of double standard canada!

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

again, there SHOULD be a bigger deal about it now.

the Liberals wooed her...made no apologies.

the CPC wooed him, *after* opposing the same behaviour.

I see your "double standard" and raise you with HYPOCRISY