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Originally posted by KristineClub On the topic, I totally embrace new technology but at the same time, I'm still nostalgic. I don't think just some kid with a laptop should be playing in big clubs even if he does have lots of talent. A DJ who doesn't know how to work a turntable is not a DJ IMO. When I see guys using only CDs or laptops, I assume a large percentage of the music they play has been downloaded for free without their ass leaving their seat. There is something about finding unique records that nobody else has, new or old. I have lots more to say about this but I'm feeling lazy today.

This isn't directed at you Greg because many others feel the same as you do but since you brought it up, I'll say my piece.

Don't you think you are contradicting yourself? You say you embrace new technology yet none of the new technology seems to have any form of credit in your eyes. By your logic, a person using another method of expressing his music (laptop, CD) has no credibility, regardless of talent. Last time I checked, talent resides within the person, not the medium the person uses.

Personally, I think some vinyl DJs feel threatened, not by CD players and laptops, but by their own personal inadequacies. They are always quick to jump at the chance to discredit the legitimacy of CDJs and laptops with subjective reasons like nostalgia or "it feels better" or piracy. I can understand real reasons for advocacy such as, vinyl sounds better, or there's more technical skill in manipulating vinyl than a CD. If vinyl is so superior, just what are vinyl DJs so afraid of? People aren’t stupid. They can hear superior music and talent. Let the better music shine through.

Last edited by Scottaculous on Feb-13-2006 at 23:07

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Originally posted by Scottaculous You say you embrace new technology yet none of the new technology seems to have any form of credit in your eyes.

That's not true. I do give the technology credit and I do embrace it. When we talk about new methods of DJing, I assume that we're also talking about CDs and you know that I play quite a bit of CDs. All I was saying is that I don't think a DJ should resort to CDs alone or (especially) use of a laptop. It seems like programs like Ableton would be great for producing music but I don't see it as a fair way to DJ. There are lots of talented DJs out there who have spent years mastering their skills to beatmatch and what not and it just seems unfair that someone who doesn't even know how to beatmatch could play at the same clubs or events as one of the experienced vinyl DJs.

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Originally posted by Scottaculous Last time I checked, talent resides within the person, not the medium the person uses.

No, I think you're wrong. It has everything to do with the medium a person uses. Are you telling me that it takes the same amount of talent for a person to trace a photograph and make it look exactly like the original as it does someone to freehand it and make it look the same? It does take more talent to cue up and beatmatch a record manually than to have the tempos perfectly matched instantly with a program like Ableton. It does take more talent to find tracks that mix perfectly together without having to change the key.

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Originally posted by Scottaculous I think some vinyl DJs feel threatened, not by CD players and laptops, but by their own personal inadequacies. They are always quick to jump at the chance to discredit the legitimacy of CDJs and laptops with subjective reasons like nostalgia or "it feels better" or piracy.

I think you're right and I know you aren't directing this towards me but I'm not one of those DJs. I'm confident in my skills. You can't deny, though, that, without a couple of turntables, there's something missing. There's just something special about flipping through your record crate instead of pointing at files with your mouse. It makes me sad.

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Greg's Soundcloud

yikes, this argument sounds so much like an older one within the computer industry, when the machintosh came out and then when windows followed, the existing command line experts argued much the same thing, that these new GUI monkeys were useless because they didn't learn to manupilate a command line. Now everybody uses win and mac and the command line kids are all but extinct. It is the same logic, a new technology comes out that no longer requires that the users learn something, it enables them to learn other neat things instead, but the people who learned the old skill disrespect the new talent because they didn't learn that old skill that wasn't relevent to them, and nothing new that these new people learned to replace that old skill could earn their blessing.

That stuff doesn't happen anymore, a kid working a GUI productively gets just as much appreciation as a command line ninja.

We could find another parallel that is kinda funny. Way back in the day, in the time of Jesus, they began spreading the gospel to gentiles, people who weren't Jews. The Jews who converted to Christ did not respect the gentile christians because they were uncircumcised, because they ate pork, because they didn't follow the old testament laws. Christ comes along and forgives everybody, and the old Jews don't like the gentiles because they had to work hard to follow the old testament law but now all they needed to do was accept Jesus. They didn't need to be circumsized, didn't need to memorize scripture and have a bar mitsfah, didn't need to follow the diet rules, and people were excluding gentiles from the church because of this. Now you can't find many christians anywhere that aren't gentiles, you don't walk into a church and find anybody enforcing the Jewish diet or requiring circumcision. People think that things like diet and circumsision are petty issues that are not worth arguing over.

Are you really gonna refuse to give your blessing to anyone who uses a different form of music performance just because they aren't curcumcized, because they don't know the command line, because they don't know how to beatmatch turntables? I think that a computer DJ can be talented, his talents might not be in tactile manipulation of a turntable, which is a sexy skill to have, but they are in manipulating symbols in insanely complex ways which can be equally sexy if you would only give it a chance.

That said some people are using their computers as an excuse not to have any talent, but it is unfair to judge everybody in this way.

No, I hear you man and I agree with you. Like the thread-starter said though, if someone uses Ableton to mix, they better blow the fucking roof off.

Speaking of turntables and computers and how sexy they can be, I know of a man who has mastered both, making him extra SEXY...













































































HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY CHRIS MEADOWS!!!

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Greg's Soundcloud

AH! That picture is everywhere!

But I love it just the same

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http://www.thatexposureshow.com

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 yikes, this argument sounds so much like an older one within the computer industry, when the machintosh came out and then when windows followed, the existing command line experts argued much the same thing, that these new GUI monkeys were useless because they didn't learn to manupilate a command line. Now everybody uses win and mac and the command line kids are all but extinct. It is the same logic, a new technology comes out that no longer requires that the users learn something, it enables them to learn other neat things instead, but the people who learned the old skill disrespect the new talent because they didn't learn that old skill that wasn't relevent to them, and nothing new that these new people learned to replace that old skill could earn their blessing. That stuff doesn't happen anymore, a kid working a GUI productively gets just as much appreciation as a command line ninja. We could find another parallel that is kinda funny. Way back in the day, in the time of Jesus, they began spreading the gospel to gentiles, people who weren't Jews. The Jews who converted to Christ did not respect the gentile christians because they were uncircumcised, because they ate pork, because they didn't follow the old testament laws. Christ comes along and forgives everybody, and the old Jews don't like the gentiles because they had to work hard to follow the old testament law but now all they needed to do was accept Jesus. They didn't need to be circumsized, didn't need to memorize scripture and have a bar mitsfah, didn't need to follow the diet rules, and people were excluding gentiles from the church because of this. Now you can't find many christians anywhere that aren't gentiles, you don't walk into a church and find anybody enforcing the Jewish diet or requiring circumcision. People think that things like diet and circumsision are petty issues that are not worth arguing over. Are you really gonna refuse to give your blessing to anyone who uses a different form of music performance just because they aren't curcumcized, because they don't know the command line, because they don't know how to beatmatch turntables? I think that a computer DJ can be talented, his talents might not be in tactile manipulation of a turntable, which is a sexy skill to have, but they are in manipulating symbols in insanely complex ways which can be equally sexy if you would only give it a chance. That said some people are using their computers as an excuse not to have any talent, but it is unfair to judge everybody in this way.

QFT. Quality post. I like the idea that something will come up in the future that all sides will be happy with.

Personally, I hate how most DJ's are all about the new tracks. They are worse than middle school girls about that. "Oh, that track is SOOO last week..." Once they hear it in a club, or on radio broadcast or even their friend plays it, the track they loved a week ago somehow loses its sparkle. People have turned it into a competition, and get lost in the battle for Top Dog when they've forgotten that its about the music, a feel-good thing!

Scott made a good point about how bringing an old track back in a mix is awesome thing. I totally agree.

New music is very cool indeed. I think people get obsessed about it and lose sight of the greater goal.

Now I am still pretty much a n00b when it comes to DJing, I have only been mixing for a year but this is what I have seen near and far.

As far as technology, our world will always be replacing it and things become obsolete given enough time. I love spinning vinyl because that's what I learned on and that's what I am most comfortable with and best at. But if I'm in a club, I don't care if he's mixing from a PDA as long as his sound is good. I'm not really critical at all about big-name DJ's messing up a mix either, we're all humans, we mess up sometimes. I feel bad for the person who ends up not have a good time because they are over-anaylzing a DJ's performance, like an olympics judge. 6.8!

For those of us who still pursue vinyl you must realize that we are a dying breed. It's cool finding new stuff on mp3 but it's also cool finding new stuff on white label. Problem is (for me at least) there's not a record store out here in the cornfields of SC so I have to order things, one of the coolest things about vinyl is going to the record store for 6 hours crate-digging to end up blowing your entire paycheck! Good times.

Oh the pain of living in the bible belt! I am near a store that does hip hop and some DnB, three hours driving from another hiphop/DnB/Breaks shop that has a trance/house/prog corner that has a small and random selection, and that is all that we get.

I like the internet because it makes me feel like I can enjoy music without having to put up with the "industry" of music. Being far away from record stores and clubs is much less of an issue when you are online, and you can more easily isolate the sound from the marketing.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 I like the internet because it makes me feel like I can enjoy music without having to put up with the "industry" of music. Being far away from record stores and clubs is much less of an issue when you are online, and you can more easily isolate the sound from the marketing.

You've got a way of voicing your opinion with such clarity that I admire. I feel the same way, I hate marketing. I prefer mp3's as well. I don't even like to see what the cover of a cd looks like before I listen to it and I usually don't even like to know who the artist of a track is because I like to experience it with a clean palate and judge it soley on the music and nothing else. Marketing is all about trying to sway people. I know it's necessary but it just sucks sometimes.

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Greg's Soundcloud

that is interesting

what stuff have you enjoyed the most when you listen to music in this way?

And how do you go about gathering music without first figuring out artist and title?

What I used to do, was get on the tracklisting forums and p2p every tune mentioned that I could find. Just go through the top10 lists and the setlists and stuff then weed out annoying stuff. I can't do that anymore though, p2p is too hard, and I dont have a giant hard drive that I can use to trade stuff. What I have to do these days is listen to livesets and stuff like digitally imported, and pick out the stuff that stands out the most, but gathering tunes this way takes much longer.