quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Correct me if I'm wrong but was this bill not drafted 10 years ago under the Harris government, then underwent a long process of commitee meetings, public hearings, negotiations with the municipalities and other stakeholders (ie. unions), which resulted in an inordinate number of ammendments (>100). I think that there has been a lot of budging on this. Also, it may be worth while to point out that this bill effects a number of groups of which CUPE is only one.... and the only one that has a problem with it. Seriously, their only issue is that they need 75% rather then 50% member support to change their pension plan????? BIG FUCKIN' DEAL! They're going to disrupt the entire province for this? And you think McGuinty is being unreasonable? 10 years and 100 ammendments seems like a pretty good sign all three governments involved in this legislation were rather cooperative with all the stakeholder.

i guess my biggest point of all this is that harris wasnt the bad guy that everyone made him out to be. As evident by the fact that unions have hated Bill davis (PC) David Peterson (Liberal) Bob Rae (NDP) Mike Harris/Eves (PC) and now Mcguinty (Liberal)

So if people are going to hate on one for causing labour strife, you have to hate them all.

And someone needs to grow balls and use this opportunity to shut the unions down.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT corrected. anyone walking off the job should face legal consequences. I'm fucking sick of this city, province, etc. being held hostage by these big unions who get their members to walk whenever the fuck they feel like it. vote out the gov't, hold out when your contract is up, but *fuck you* if you illegally walk off the job. most of us aren't in unionized jobs and can't just walk when we feel we're getting shafted...then they will illegally walk? FUCK THAT. this is NOT the right way to enact change.

I Agree 100% - Well said

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 and i say good... unions had their day. They are no longer beneficiary to society. Actually its more to the contrary now.

just look at the ttc

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 i guess my biggest point of all this is that harris wasnt the bad guy that everyone made him out to be. As evident by the fact that unions have hated Bill davis (PC) David Peterson (Liberal) Bob Rae (NDP) Mike Harris/Eves (PC) and now Mcguinty (Liberal) So if people are going to hate on one for causing labour strife, you have to hate them all. And someone needs to grow balls and use this opportunity to shut the unions down.

I think that the people who hate Harris do so more because of the way he conducted himself (intentionally causing labour unrest where there wasn't any before and, moreover, the air of indifference he projected).

You're right, unions representing public sector employees generally will hate what ever government is sitting regardless of who comprises said government. This is to be expected as unions survive only by maintaining an adversarial position to their employer.

I think the best way to deal with labour issues was that of Nazi Germany (don't hate me yet people, they had a great system). All unions were amelgamated into a single body that was chartered by the government but operated independently. This body would then negotiate all collective barginning agreements with employers. A government ministry would mediate the negotiations against a dead line. If no agreement were reached by the dead line the government would impose a new collective agreement (in most instances it was simply renewing the existing agreement). Failure to comply fully would result in the union losing its charter or the employer losing their license to do business. There was not one strike or lock out during the Nazi regime.

tidbits from an article in today's Toronto Star:

quote:

"The premier of Ontario can’t back down “every time somebody says, `I’m unhappy with the outcome of that lawful process, so I’m going to protest that in a way that is unlawful,’ ” McGuinty said. “I just think that’s inappropriate, and I think it would be irresponsible on my part to accept that.”

agreed.

quote:

While some Ontario schools will remain open, scores of buildings with older boilers, including many in Toronto, will be forced to shut down immediately, said Rick Johnson, president of the Ontario Public School Boards Association. “Once again, the kids in this province are going to be held hostage in an argument between adults,” Johnson said from his home in Pontypool, Ont. “It’s just really sad.” Johnson said many of the province’s 100,000 special-needs students will feel the effects most keenly because CUPE represents educational assistants at most school boards. “I’ve seen notices from boards all across the province saying that parents of high-needs kids are being advised to keep their children at home in the event of a walkout.”

I'd like to see the parents of these 100,000 kids threaten a class-action lawsuit against CUPE. If this is an unlawful strike, sue them for the costs of your child care or lost wages for having to stay home with them. The cost to care or miss work to mind 100,000 kids x however many days they strike would be a LOT of money, I suspect.

quote:

Opposition leaders said the premier is to blame if workers walk out. “I think it represents a failure of leadership on the part of Mr. McGuinty,” said Conservative leader John Tory.

wrong jackass...it's an illegal strike. If they walk out, how about we hold CUPE members accountable for THEIR OWN CHOICES AND ACTIONS.

as much as I don't care for McGuinty either, putting this all on him is complete bullshit.

its a failure of leadership on the part of both mcguinty AND sid ryan.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT corrected. anyone walking off the job should face legal consequences. I'm fucking sick of this city, province, etc. being held hostage by these big unions who get their members to walk whenever the fuck they feel like it. vote out the gov't, hold out when your contract is up, but *fuck you* if you illegally walk off the job. most of us aren't in unionized jobs and can't just walk when we feel we're getting shafted...then they will illegally walk? FUCK THAT. this is NOT the right way to enact change.

Well said!!

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Great Music Stations: 2HP.ca Radio & etn.fm

quote:

Originally posted by nusty he puts his pants on one leg at a time. it's true.

@ that quote from the BEST SNL skit of ALL TIME!

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TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar @ that quote from the BEST SNL skit of ALL TIME!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7718210058143075450&q=cowbell

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"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 no offense but your friend is a moron LOL

LOL someone has a different opinion from you and he/she is a moron. LOL MORONS.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Watching now. I love you man!

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TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

quote:

Originally posted by beatjunkie LOL someone has a different opinion from you and he/she is a moron. LOL MORONS.

No.. that he confused mike harris with a federal leader is pretty dumb.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill