can anyone tell me what the hell harmonic mixing is?
does the damn machine match the incoming song harmonically?

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Originally posted by stefanoc can anyone tell me what the hell harmonic mixing is? does the damn machine match the incoming song harmonically?

when u change the pitch u change the key of the track. you are mostly changing the pitch in such a way that the track is caught between the original key and the next. what the mixer does is tweaks the song to the closest key allowing the DJ to perform a proper harmonic mix

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Originally posted by Basstard when u change the pitch u change the key of the track. you are mostly changing the pitch in such a way that the track is caught between the original key and the next. what the mixer does is tweaks the song to the closest key allowing the DJ to perform a proper harmonic mix

OK, so from what I can gather, the mixer alters the cued track so it harmonically blends with the live track (correct me if I'm wrong). This leaves the DJ virtually no maneuvore for using harmonies as they please.

For example, a hard trance DJ might want to to cut to a tune that is a seminotone up, creating a rising energy which sounds cool. If a progressive DJ were to layer keys that are a semitone apart, would probably sound pretty diar (the keys are too close, like red and pink). It sounds gimmicky to me and I'd definitly need something more worthwhile than that to get me to upgrade from my 600 to an 800.

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Originally posted by est OK, so from what I can gather, the mixer alters the cued track so it harmonically blends with the live track (correct me if I'm wrong). This leaves the DJ virtually no maneuvore for using harmonies as they please. For example, a hard trance DJ might want to to cut to a tune that is a seminotone up, creating a rising energy which sounds cool. If a progressive DJ were to layer keys that are a semitone apart, would probably sound pretty diar (the keys are too close, like red and pink). It sounds gimmicky to me and I'd definitly need something more worthwhile than that to get me to upgrade from my 600 to an 800.

i don't know if this is what you mean but from what i gather, if the tracks are less than a semi-tone apart, the mixer corrects the dissonance slightly to make the mix sound more in-key..

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue i don't know if this is what you mean but from what i gather, if the tracks are less than a semi-tone apart, the mixer corrects the dissonance slightly to make the mix sound more in-key..

Yes but we don't want to mix perfect key matches in the same damned key all night! DJs want to be able to use the harmonies to create effects in their mix. For example, a cut of a rising semitone is often used by hard dance djs to create a sudden rise in energy. This wouldn't have nearly the same effect if the keys were perfectly matched. Some trance DJs like to layer the basslines of keys that are a minor 3rd apart, effectively creating a chord with the bassline. Again, this wouldn't work if the keys were matched.

A tool that just matches keys every time doesn't allow any of the flexibility that a DJ that really understands harmony can make use of.

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Originally posted by est Yes but we don't want to mix perfect key matches in the same damned key all night! DJs want to be able to use the harmonies to create effects in their mix. For example, a cut of a rising semitone is often used by hard dance djs to create a sudden rise in energy. This wouldn't have nearly the same effect if the keys were perfectly matched. Some trance DJs like to layer the basslines of keys that are a minor 3rd apart, effectively creating a chord with the bassline. Again, this wouldn't work if the keys were matched. A tool that just matches keys every time doesn't allow any of the flexibility that a DJ that really understands harmony can make use of.

This is exactly why i lol'ed when i read "automatic harmonic matching" as one of the features... the djm 800 is obviously gonna be better than 600 with all the built in effects and all, but harmonic mixing should be left to the trained ear and keying your tracks etc...

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Originally posted by est Yes but we don't want to mix perfect key matches in the same damned key all night! DJs want to be able to use the harmonies to create effects in their mix. For example, a cut of a rising semitone is often used by hard dance djs to create a sudden rise in energy. This wouldn't have nearly the same effect if the keys were perfectly matched. Some trance DJs like to layer the basslines of keys that are a minor 3rd apart, effectively creating a chord with the bassline. Again, this wouldn't work if the keys were matched. A tool that just matches keys every time doesn't allow any of the flexibility that a DJ that really understands harmony can make use of.

no uve got it wrong est - i mean when generally when u change the pitch ur gonna have the key of the track somewhere in "no man's land" less than a semi-tone either way of the true key. because of this, true harmonic mixing is made impossible. all the mixer is doing is adjusting it to that semitone

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Originally posted by Basstard no uve got it wrong est - i mean when generally when u change the pitch ur gonna have the key of the track somewhere in "no man's land" less than a semi-tone either way of the true key. because of this, true harmonic mixing is made impossible. all the mixer is doing is adjusting it to that semitone

Right so it doesn't adjust the key of the track any more than a semitone either way? Does the DJ have any control over this? My point is that sometimes, what is theoretically a clash (e.g. a minor 3rd apart) can come across well in a set if it's done in the right way. Pressing a button to have tracks automatically synched takes away the ability to do this, as far as I can see. So I'm interested in how the 800 deals with matching keys, and how much flexibilty the DJ is left with. I'm yet to be convinced that this is any substitute for knowing how harmony and keys work, and like I said, I'd like to hear it in action with a couple of tracks that I know.

I don't think it does anything automatically for you, it just allows you to key the track up or down. You still have to use your ears.

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Originally posted by est Right so it doesn't adjust the key of the track any more than a semitone either way? Does the DJ have any control over this? My point is that sometimes, what is theoretically a clash (e.g. a minor 3rd apart) can come across well in a set if it's done in the right way. Pressing a button to have tracks automatically synched takes away the ability to do this, as far as I can see. So I'm interested in how the 800 deals with matching keys, and how much flexibilty the DJ is left with. I'm yet to be convinced that this is any substitute for knowing how harmony and keys work, and like I said, I'd like to hear it in action with a couple of tracks that I know.

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if the DJ adjusts a track in the key of C by +3%, you are no longer in the key of C, and now between C and D. This makes it impossible to perform a perfect harmonic mix, unless harmonic tuning is applied. Harmonic tuning takes whatever key the source audio is in and adjusts the pitch until the key reaches a standard note.

SOURCE

Got it. So it just adjusts the problem of having tracks in the mix that are perhaps in the same key when both at 0 pitch, but *slightly* off kilter when the pitch of one is adjusted for beatmatching. So it doesn't actually manipulate the keys for you, just pushes them so they are perfectly on pitch.

Is that really such a useful feature, though? I'd have to hear it to be convinced that this would make a significant difference. I guess if one track had to be pithced away from the other by quite a large amount. But this might add to the problem as it might adjust the track in to the wrong key (e.g. if you were in Bflat and pitched it up, then applied the harmonic correction, might put it in to B, which would be a clash )

the harmonic mixing is NOT automatic. you have to control it yourself using the color effex knob.

look at this video to see the mixer in action. goes over all the effects and color effects.

download Volume 2.1

http://www.westenddj.tv/index1.html

you will need the latest version of quicktime

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Originally posted by kimchi the harmonic mixing is NOT automatic. you have to control it yourself using the color effex knob. look at this video to see the mixer in action. goes over all the effects and color effects. download Volume 2.1 http://www.westenddj.tv/index1.html you will need the latest version of quicktime

Thank You.

Was just about to say this, the keys are controlled by the color knobs.

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