quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto why are you comparing followers when the point is exposing the PROPHET as a man of violence? who cannot be seriously considered holy

this is a bit of unfamiliar territory for me (i.e. i'm not at all conclusive about my words here), but: wouldn't the popes be parables to muhamad in some level? didn't the pope order atrocities to be commited?

the reason i'm not very familiar with this topic is because i havent researched it - i had no reason to, i live in a country where the christian population is so small that i'm not sure i've ever met one, hence it's irrelavant to me.

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quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T this is a bit of unfamiliar territory for me (i.e. i'm not at all conclusive about my words here), but: wouldn't the popes be parables to muhamad in some level? didn't the pope order atrocities to be commited? the reason i'm not very familiar with this topic is because i havent researched it - i had no reason to, i live in a country where the christian population is so small that i'm not sure i've ever met one, hence it's irrelavant to me.

the pope would be like a caliph...not even, less than a caliph and all of them have performed travesties as well.

and i will not argue that christians during the middle ages and on did much good.

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Originally posted by sponger i got those pieces from encarta, so i guess theyre wrong? either way, the person that established your religion, muhammad, was a murderer and pedofile and was in no way near "without error" as was Jesus, sorry. umm muhammed was the founder of islam right? as was Jesus the founder of Christianity right? now compare muhammeds life with Jesus's. I wasnt tryin to really compare them cause obviously there is no comparison. NO, there again is proof of islams violence, did Jesus ever tell his followers to fight their "enemies", no. wow thats much better how many did Jesus have? and that article really doesn't mean anything, point is he had 12 wives, one of which was 9?, nice. hardly without "error" if you ask me. "Muhammad meanwhile eliminated his enemies within Medina" this says alot about your "prophet" sorry for disrespecting your religion, thats just the way i feel about it. like i said just look around the world to see the atrocities being committed by muslims. article

LOL ... you are entitled to your opinion however fucked it maybe.

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quote:

Originally posted by NebulousQ CAIR = ??

Council on American-Islamic Relations

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Is sponger that racist xenophobic redneck Smokeape?

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Originally posted by sponger wow thats much better how many did Jesus have? and that article really doesn't mean anything, point is he had 12 wives, one of which was 9?, nice. hardly without "error" if you ask me. "Muhammad meanwhile eliminated his enemies within Medina" this says alot about your "prophet" sorry for disrespecting your religion, thats just the way i feel about it. like i said just look around the world to see the atrocities being committed by muslims. article

i wrote this in the other thread, but it should have been directed at you:

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Tell me how much you know about the life, culture, and customs of ancient Arabia in 600AD? He was a product of his times, living in a very harsh land far different than your own and his values and the traditions of his culture reflect that. Did you know the Bedouin tribes of the Arabian desert would have to practice infanticide to feed their family in times when food was so scarce they would all die of starvation otherwise? I can hear you saying "Barbarians! What unwholesome heathens!" but know that if you ever got over your indignant ignorance behind the comfort of your computer (they didn't have computers in those days) you would do the exact same thing in that situation. To my knowledge Muhammads scripture made life far better for women and slaves, in a time when the ill treatment of slaves and women was considered normal (even amonst the majority of Christians) From memory his youngest wife was the daughter of his closest friend (not 100% on this?) and she and her father loved Muammad dearly and he loved her back. I'm not trying to condone pedophilia, i find it repulsive in our society, but i'm not going to preach indignant bullshit to the thousands of remote tribes and cultures untouched by the reaches of "civilisation" who do not consider marriage to boys or girls under 18 taboo, and have not for thousands of years. Because i'm not the soi-disant authority on righteousness, and neither is the Bible.

Comparing religions is fucked, none can claim the moral high ground over any other (perhaps with the exception of Buddhism) and especially not christianity which has had more wars waged and attrocities committed in its name than anything else

Let me get the thing about muhammad marrying the 9 year old girl straight.

It was a form of adoption.Islam's form of adoption isnt as simple as western practices. Many of u fail to realise that different religions have different practices due to their original places of location.

The Hindus have diffrent practices because they live in india. The taoists have different practices because they originated in china.

Anyway

The girl was an orphan and needed the protection of somebody, someone. Muhammad took her in by marrying her. Adoption as a general view wasnt an option because in Islam, when the child is adopted, the child isnt of biological descent and is a "mahram"

Mahram is a type of social term where it would like incest nowadays.

ie.It would be "mahram" for u to fuck ur sis

The advantage with this, is when ur not mahram, the person may live with u under islamic law and wouldnt be taboo or haram.

Woman's Mahrams form the group of allowable escorts for a Muslim woman when she travels. Muhammad could travel with her and protect her as the islamic rule says.

U may say..well muhammad could fuck her then. U might also remember that it is haram to fuck a girl before puberty. Muhammad may use this a as a loophole OR could still practice both options.

I mean jesus could fuck mary and i still wouldnt give a fuck.That was 2000 years ago. The difference is.. some of u do.

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Originally posted by tathi Is sponger that racist xenophobic redneck Smokeape? i wrote this in the other thread, but it should have been directed at you: Comparing religions is fucked, none can claim the moral high ground over any other (perhaps with the exception of Buddhism) and especially not christianity which has had more wars waged and attrocities committed in its name than anything else

im racist, xenophobic, and a redneck because i believe the founder of islam was a violent and immoral man???

im not necessarily comparing religions and its followers, im comparing something more important, the FOUNDERS! yes christians have sinned just like everyone else, but Jesus did not! And muhhamed, the founder of islam, was a sinner! lepanto already pointed this out to psy-t did you miss that!

to answer your previous post; taken from apostatesofislam.com.

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Why Mohammed was not a prophet: One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives and their “right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way. Muhammad was a narcissist like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

seems a bit harsh and if it is all true i don't know, but the main point relating to your post is highlighted.

I am an ex muslim and i dont spend time wasting on how bad islam is.
I have my reasons and i keep it to myself.

I say these people have no clue whatsoever on islam in the first place and are just angry at other things in their life too.

I can see that there are flaws in the quran but there are really meaningful teachings that we as a human race can learn from.


Seriously why make a website stating all that. For what? So that more hate can be spread than there already is?

So that people can see the truth about islam? Sure i'm gonna believe them. We have islamic scolars on one side..and we have them on the other. You the above poster.. obviously choose the latter as the source of islamic facts. WELL GOOD DARN JOB. I can tell ur one of the few who will always follow and never lead. Never the one to take on responsibility even though ur capable.

Seriously, no one in this world can say they are "experts" in the field of religion, because the ones who created it are long dead.. or if there is a god.. only he truly understands it. We can make it what we want to be and if our intepretation is right and we follow it.. we go to heaven...nirvana... whatever. Thats religion.

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Originally posted by sponger im racist, xenophobic, and a redneck because i believe the founder of islam was a violent and immoral man???

No you're a racist, xenophobic, and a redneck because you have proven it in your posts Smokeape

quote:

im not necessarily comparing religions and its followers, im comparing something more important, the FOUNDERS! yes christians have sinned just like everyone else, but Jesus did not! And muhhamed, the founder of islam, was a sinner! lepanto already pointed this out to psy-t did you miss that!

How do we know Jesus did not sin? How do we know he did not cleverly manipulate those all around him? One can just as easily write a paragraph exposing Jesus as an extremely charismatic and persuasive leader with narcissistic delusions of grandeur. A person that was so influential in his time that he created his own cult called "Christianity", a monotheistic amalgamation of Judaism and Paganism. A cult whose influence increased to the point where the oppressive regime at the time became fearful of its sway and punished this mortal cult leader with death. But with death came martyrdom, and all martyrs are much more powerful in death than they could ever have hoped for in life, his cause became a symble for the oppressed and uneducated masses. His loyal followers blinded by their love for him forgot his falsities and failures and aggrandized his feats; the word spreads and through every mouth it becomes more diluted. Sixty years after his death (i think it was 60?) men begin to write a book "based on a true story" called the bible, a book which over the millenia has been rewritten and bowdlerized thousands of times, often as a tool for the powerful to control the weak.

Whether i believe in the above or not is irrelevant, it is no more or less right than what you've posted or the many other millions of views and opinions out there on the founders of Christianity and Islam.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Whether i believe in the above or not is irrelevant...

i believe in it now mate, you have converted me. i enjoy your thinking

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No you're a racist, xenophobic, and a redneck because you have proven it in your posts Smokeape

i don't know which of my posts gave you that impression but i assure you i am none of those things. i have friends of different races and i hate noone because of their race or nationality. i was born in europe and live in california so i don't see how i can be a redneck.

quote:

How do we know Jesus did not sin? How do we know he did not cleverly manipulate those all around him? One can just as easily write a paragraph exposing Jesus as an extremely charismatic and persuasive leader with narcissistic delusions of grandeur. A person that was so influential in his time that he created his own cult called "Christianity", a monotheistic amalgamation of Judaism and Paganism. A cult whose influence increased to the point where the oppressive regime at the time became fearful of its sway and punished this mortal cult leader with death. But with death came martyrdom, and all martyrs are much more powerful in death than they could ever have hoped for in life, his cause became a symble for the oppressed and uneducated masses. His loyal followers blinded by their love for him forgot his falsities and failures and aggrandized his feats; the word spreads and through every mouth it becomes more diluted. Sixty years after his death (i think it was 60?) men begin to write a book "based on a true story" called the bible, a book which over the millenia has been rewritten and bowdlerized thousands of times, often as a tool for the powerful to control the weak.[

ok so you spent all that time writing basically about the followers, Christians, and how Jesus started a cult and so on. The only possible thing you could come up with is that Jesus was a persuasive leader and a narcissist? There is no evidence Jesus advocated violence, took part in violent acts, had wives, had sex, hurt anyone, or forced his beliefs on anyone. On the other hand there is evidence of those things for mohammed, thats why i believe he is a false prophet. Christians believe Jesus was flawless and there is no evidence to counter that. again, my point is it is known that muhammed committed these sins and i just don't see how islam can be a peaceful religion if its own founder was not

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it is no more or less right than what you've posted or the many other millions of views and opinions out there on the founders of Christianity and Islam.

opinions? im going by what history says about muhammed, that he raided villages, killed his enemies, and had many wives!

Last edited by sponger on Mar-30-2006 at 06:10

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Originally posted by trewqy Seriously why make a website stating all that. For what? So that more hate can be spread than there already is? So that people can see the truth about islam? Sure i'm gonna believe them. We have islamic scolars on one side..and we have them on the other. You the above poster.. obviously choose the latter as the source of islamic facts. WELL GOOD DARN JOB.

to get their message out about islam yes! i did not just choose that site for islamic facts, there are many other sources which say the same thing!