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Originally posted by jacheatamobits Also, if you are going to steal a program on the internet, isnt that the same as throwing a brick through a shop window and running off with some equipment?

no, lol

I've been against the EULA for software since I was old enough to read through it, and understand it.

If I purchase it. It's mine. I can sell it to whoever I want to later (you can't technically do that under the EULA terms.) So in my opinion software law is already flawed. Granted. It is still stealing, but that metaphor simply doesn't apply since the law is flawed from the get go. I would agree with you if software was treated just the same legally as any other good or service. But it's not.

Anyway. I could prattle on and on. But learning from warezed software is very good, and my professors at AI condone, and encourage it "You're going to this school, so you're going to be poor for a while, might as well be able to learn all the same professional plug-ins at home to maximize your learning time."

So yea. WOOT I JUST WON A SPEAK AND SPELL ON EBAY.

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The term "water software" makes me chuckle. It's true though, something you can't hold in your hands does seem vaporous.

I've always wondered why the price of music software is so damn high. I realize a lot of work goes into developing such programs, but a lot of work goes into a PC game too, and an average game costs $40. Something like Fruity Loops is affordable to a lot of people, and you don't have to get the upgrades. I would say more people actually buy Fruity because of that. If the industry would bring the prices down on music software, they would sell more units. Never going to happen of course, because the rest of the software industry does the same thing. Did you get your copy of Photoshop for $400? Basically, by making the prices so out of reach to a lot of people, they are encouraging piracy.

Good point made here about if you are going to buy sequencer software and VSTs, you might as well buy the hardware. For the same price you could get a nice setup. I wish I would of thought of that before :/

Windows Vista, the new windows OS I'm sure you all know, is supposed to end piracy by using some kind of scheme that verifies every piece of software you try to install on your system. It sounds a bit fascist to me though, because every bit of software has to be OKed by Bill gates, or it won't install. That might even affect freeware and shareware. I'm convinced though that the scheme will be cracked, because hackers have a lot of time on their hands it seems.

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Originally posted by Diginerd So I have to pose a question... Do you HAVE to upgrade? I'm guessing you're not running OSX which does produce this result on an almost monthly basis? And I have to ask, why did you pay so much for your app?

No i didnt HAVE to upgrade , I'm just saying that it was the jealousy of seeing people who pay the same amount as me getting more, and the resentment of having to pay more to upgrade that led me to piracy, which up untill that point I was strongly against. Now I love it, Im hooked.

I paid so much coz that was the price Australian dollars.

And as u say, soon I wont be able to pirate software, so i will make hay while the sun shines.

By the way I do understand that this is moraly wrong
.

Ok, an interesting point has come up. That of hardware.

I've probbably spent close to 80% of my total studio investment on hardware, cretainly more if you look at it over the years that I've been doing this. And I've spent many thousands on software..

The nice thing about hardware, is it ALWAYS works (well unless something breaks, but that's rare), and it is totally agnostic to the Plafrom, Operating System or Sequencer your running.

It's awkward to deal with both from a cabling (It takes me about 30 hours to cable up my studio,and I don't have that much stuff..)and programming standpoint, but its solid, reliable, and very importantly, it has a resale value.

Hell looking around my studio there is stuff in here that's probbably older than somepeople reading this. And it still works as well as the day it was bought, and I'm yet to see a plug-in match it.

This touches a really raw nerve for me. There are many people out there going "OMGodz I just havz to buy teh Virus TI it's uber 1337!!". Realistically if you had that kind of cash to drop you could get an awful lot of cool stuff from Ebay that collectively will beat the crap out of the Virus sonically. Not least because that combination of gear represents YOUR sound. If everyone has the same collection of cracked plugs all you get is a large amount of mediocrity.

What's more you can buy something that's fully depreciated on Ebay, try it out, if you don't like it you can sell it again and not loose cash.. That's pretty cool in my book.

I disagree with the Photoshop comment above for this exact reason. It's $400, but you are simply looking at the COST not the VALUE. There is nothing else short of a Quantel system that does what it does. And a Quantel system is vastly more expensive than $400!!! Ok the Quantel rips it for a reason!

For free there's GIMP which is pretty impressive, or if you are on a Mac there's iPhoto. Finally if you buy a scanner 99% of the time it comes with Photoshop elements. Unless you are deep into things you wouldn't miss a feature.

Anyway I digress. For most people Photoshop is total overkill, why the hell do you need it? Likewise most serious audio tools are over kill for most people.

If you want to get started get a copy of Fruity and start mucking about. If you spend more than 40 hours on it then go buy it if you haven't already.

If you say you need Waves plugins, describe to me the difference between the Opto and Electro setting and their best uses (and I don't mean theretically) in the RComp before even coming to the table. Chances are you don't have the trained ear or the environment to hear the difference...

That's not an insult, I'm using it as an illustration as to why I think people feel the need to have tools that they don't truely understand.

Which comes back to pick a few tools, know them really well and just get on and make some decent music.. :-)

/end drink fuelled rant..

Software prices are WAY too high. I agree completely. My grandfather (who's been using computers for a LONG time) even says that it's priced too high, and that it encourages piracy.

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Originally posted by Diginerd If you say you need Waves plugins, describe to me the difference between the Opto and Electro setting and their best uses (and I don't mean theretically) in the RComp before even coming to the table. Chances are you don't have the trained ear or the environment to hear the difference...

And chances are I won't learn to hear the difference if I don't download it and test out different settings.



OH and tnx Diginerd. If you wouldn't have mentioned me not knowing anything about Optical vs Electro I never would have just gone out on the internet to learn about it!

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Originally posted by Diginerd Which comes back to pick a few tools, know them really well and just get on and make some decent music.. :-)

This is what i have done, ableton live, pro 53 and z3ta, i plan on learning them all backwards, pro 53 is easy, z3ta OMFG!!!!.

But I'm still not gonna pay for them. I'm saving my cash for hardware!!!!.

I was bitter at the world last night... Backup Computer kept crashing, primary studio Computer in pieces after it pooped itself..

Racks of gear on and blinking happily waiting for somthing to talk to them. Bloody computers!

Meh.

So I read my last post and it was less finessed than I intended (Damn Becks beer).

My main point out of all of this is less about the moral rights or wrongs of legal software, but more about the psychology of actually owning what you use and the level of appreciation you have for it once you've handed over $$. It all comes back to creative restrictions produce great results. No limits will produce garbage unless you are very experienced and very disciplined. I'd like to think I'm pretty experienced, but I'm certainly not disciplined (At least compared to a bunch of people I have a lot of respect for)

Even though I have a pretty significant collection of toys, I like to try and pick what I'm going to use before I start and see how far I can get with just that. Otherwise it's very easy to get overwhelmed and produce mediocre music even with some of the best tools aailable.

I you're still learning then it's certainly best to start small. And small these days is an embarrasment of riches compared to "Back in the day". Ouch, I sound like one of those annoying clubbers. Eeek.

Anyway it's your music, it's your computer, do what you like with it, but I encourage you to investigate actually owning what you use, and getting rid of the massive list of stuff that simply cluters up your ceative thought process.

ie "Hmm This needs a compressor", let's see, pulls up a list of 20 compressors. Odds are one with always be the go to, so do you need the rest, or are you going to go through each one A/Bing them? Unless you have very decent monitoring and really know what you are listening for chances are one will pretty much do as well as the other. Sure, a Sony oxford Compressor will beat the snot out of the internal Fruity one, but is it WORTH $500 or is that just a COST. If you feel it's worth it you'll go spend the cash and appreciate it. If all you are looking at is the COST and thing becasue it's expensive and "all the "Pros" use it so I must too". then you are falling into the trap I'm trying to get you to avoid or extract yourself from.

I did have more of a point but it's Monday morning, I haven't had my coffee yet and and I want to avoid preaching... More than I have already. Ooops.

I'm currently working as much overtime as i can get my grubby hands on so that I can buy hardware and set up a cool little studio with blinking lites and machines. But I reckon I'm still 6 mths away from getting there.
In the mean time I want to learn a few more VST's which are a bit more complex such as that z3ta and learn ableton live realy well.I cant afford to dish out $1000 to buy em both, well, I can but then i'm further away from getting hardware, and software to me, whilst realy realy heaps better than it used to be ( think rebirth ) is still more of a substitute for not owning the real deal, i see it more as a way to learn and experiment.
If I find I keep using ableton tho I will buy it, coz i realy like it so far, but im only just starting to grasp it.

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd My main point out of all of this is less about the moral rights or wrongs of legal software, but more about the psychology of actually owning what you use and the level of appreciation you have for it once you've handed over $$. It all comes back to creative restrictions produce great results. No limits will produce garbage unless you are very experienced and very disciplined. I'd like to think I'm pretty experienced, but I'm certainly not disciplined (At least compared to a bunch of people I have a lot of respect for)

I probably missed the point a bit, here I was bitching about the price of software I see your point, and it's a good one. It probably won't cause anyone to stop loading up on as many free goodies as they can acquire, but you never know.

I read an article in keyboard magazine many years ago, it was an interview with the guy from erasure and formally of depeche mode (Vince Clarke is his name I believe), the one that writes all the music. He said what he would buy every older analog synth he could find, at pawn shops, music stores, where ever. He would create samples from all those older analog synths. He said he did this so he wouldn't sound like everyone else. He said he could use digital synths, and buy all the latest sounds created by some guy in japan, but everyone else was using those same sounds.

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