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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Sweden's Muslims denied their own laws
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
I found the following, which I guess is what you're talking about?

(Source)
which can only be said to be a most positive thing (only question left is who really speaks on behalf of the Swedish Muslims?), but I'm a little puzzled by your statement that *the* umbrella organization has condemned this, as according to euro-islam.info the organization suggesting this strange change of law, the SMR, *is* the umbrella organization of umbrella organizations in Sweden:


I'm also a bit unsure of who the "Swedish Islamic Society" is. They're not listed in the above account, but the snippet in the start of my post still has their spokesman speaking on behalf of the Muslims of Sweden. Can anyone clarify this to me?
Anyway, if Aldebe spoke out of his ass with no backing from his members, one would expect him to be removed from his post shortly.


Now I am having an aweful time trying to find an English article on the matter, but as you are Danish you would probably understand most of whats in this article. Amongst other things it says that the SMF (Sveriges muslimska förbund, the one Aldebe represents) is part of the umbrella organisation which is the Swedish Muslim Council, and the umbrella organisation's spokes person (Mehmet Kaplan) is condemming his letter. It also says that there has been lots of critique within his own organisation and that no one else from the board took part of his letter before he sent it out to the political parties. Further it seems like Aldebe is regretting his letter and is not really standing up for what he said there.

Old Post Apr-29-2006 13:21  Europe
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hyped_Lp
tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Landskrona, Sverige

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
I wouldn't consider them liberal either, but they are even less conservative than they are liberal imo (except perhaps some of their school proposals and some of their immigration policies which are kind of conservative)! What makes you think they are conservative? I'd say they are more like the social democrats if anything...



well, there is the things you mentioned. They are very tough when it comes to school and immigration, and they remind me a bit about american conservative politicians. I guess I can't really say what exactly makes me think of them as conservative. I guess it's just the way they act and speak in certain matter. But I could be wrong, but again the social democrats, I think, is pretty conservative in a few matters. For an example their fight on filesharing and piracy.


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Old Post Apr-29-2006 14:30  Sweden
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
Now I am having an aweful time trying to find an English article on the matter, but as you are Danish you would probably understand most of whats in this article.

I think I got most of it (except the part about Aldebe retracting his statements - I understood is as he still wanted to have separate laws). Thanks.

Old Post Apr-29-2006 16:33  Denmark
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malek
drinks your milkshake!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Montréal

Thank GOD the Govt of Québec rejected similar claims by the muslims here. Québec and Sweden have about the same population and we have more muslims.

Maybe someone could tell me if Ontario rejected similar claims.


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Old Post Apr-29-2006 21:59 
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
I think I got most of it (except the part about Aldebe retracting his statements - I understood is as he still wanted to have separate laws). Thanks.


Nah, according to that article he actually says he wants seperate "rules", not seperate laws (which I guess is just a different way of putting it). For examaple, he wants an exemption from the same sex marriage thing (which is understandable), and he wants to be able to approve divorces by imans, since this would help Swedish muslims in their home countries since their home countries wouldn't care about Swedish courts (although I see this as a way for the imans to be able to disaprove of divorces too, so this proposal doesn't make sense at all), and the statement about public pools isn't mentioned here...

Old Post Apr-30-2006 01:20  Europe
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

Well, this is certainly not the way to encourage moderate Muslims to speak out:
quote:
HIRSI ALI, THE HUNTED

Just to show how far Dutch tolerance goes: Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s neighbors have sued the Dutch state in order to get her to be removed from the apartment complex in which she is living under police protection. The request was initially rejected, but following an appeal a higher court has now ordered Hirsi Ali to leave her house within four months, I translate:

The court considers in its ruling that the neighbors have been put into a situation that has contributed to them feeling less safe in their own house. That feeling is extended to the communal living spaces of the apartment complex, but also to their own apartments. The court argues that this is a severe violation of one’s private life (as per Article 8 of the European Treaty for Human Rights).

A few things. Firstly, it should be noted that Hirsi Ali is now booted out of her own house by virtue of the European Treaty for Human Rights which does indeed supersede Dutch law. Many cases are adjudicated by referring to this treaty, but given the subject matter here I would say: Euroskeptics, go knock yourselves out.

Secondly, and this is the one that really bothers me, is that somehow Hirsi Ali’s neighbors self-interest runs so deep that they are prepared to use the court system to throw someone whose life is in danger out of her own house. It goes like this: we’re tolerant, we support free speech and a critical attitude, but if it comes too close to our front porch, sorry, we are no longer interested. On the contrary, self-interest is the deciding motivator. True, Hirsi Ali’s flatmates do have a reasonable point in arguing that the Dutch State has an obligation to ensure that their security measures benefit the entire complex. If the State has dropped the ball in that respect, they should be compelled by the courts to correct this, but to put the burden on Hirsi Ali is a very disturbing precedent. Yet, the plaintiffs are quite happy with the ruling:

“We are relieved. We just didn’t feel safe any longer in our own homes. Of course, we consider it to be terrible for Hirsi Ali to have to leave her house. The case was not directed at her personally. The point was that the State should not open us to so much danger”

The State may appeal this ruling, in which case it will go to the Dutch Supreme Court. The potential of a ruling that will favor Hirsi Ali and is able to address the upset neighbors may turn out to become a costly adventure for Dutch authorities as it is not just about one outspoken member of parliament. Beyond a number of politicians there is a growing constituency of writers, artists and cartoonists who may rightfully claim government protection. And in most cases their neighbors are equally likely to take a less than charitable view of their right to exercise free speech. This is once more evidence of how Europeans fail to understand the bigger picture and are more than willing to let some short term comfort prevail over the long term survival of core values that built their societies in the first place.

So there are no winners here. The neighborhood is unmasked as a group whose shallow self interest is paramount, the State may have made a few mistakes and will have to spend yet more on security and Ayaan, well, she remains the hunted one. It seems that those responsible for threatening her will have the last laugh.

For some reason this reminded me of the quote in shaolin's signature...

Old Post Apr-30-2006 07:03  Denmark
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jester
[enigma within a enigma]



Registered: Oct 2003
Location: The End of Elsewhere by Taras Grescoe

I dont understand why someone of another nationality or religion should have their own laws in another country. If they can not live by Swedish law so leave and live where islamic laws are already formed by a government.

Old Post May-02-2006 01:41 
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

This isn't really related to the thread topic as such, but I do think there's a common movement underlying it, and I don't want to start a new thread about it.
In the third largest city/town in Denmark, last week a police patrol spotted a foreign car, with four men in it, in an area of the city which is mainly inhabited by immigrants. As the police is currently on fairly high alert, due to several threats of terror against Denmark, they stopped the car and asked the four men to identify themselves. They refused to do so, and the policemen tried to arrest them. After some pushing and shouting locals came running to the scene and attacked the police patrol, which had to flee the scene using small pathways. Throughout the night that part of the city were alive with unrest and bonfires in the street. The four men turned out to be some French Imams, which are currently touring Europe for some reason.
What kinds of reactions has this sparked, then? Well, the police chief of the city was of course quick to regret that the patrol had acted so soon, rather than work in collaboration with the local community leaders. I guess he's doing damage control, knowing that he has to keep up an illusion of control for that area for the foreseeable future. The local community leaders, on the other hand, has suggested, wait for it - an "ethnic" police for this particular city area. Anyone said parallel community? Anarchy? Wild wild west?

Old Post May-04-2006 01:44  Denmark
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