each to his own; imho the number of times you should use anything above C6 in a trance track are 0 - would kill peoples ears over a 40k sound system.

vanguard has a unique sound, you just have to use it right; and every synth has it's limitations.

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You dont play anything above C6?!

Man, the stuff I am working on at the moment spans 6 octaves, not including the sub, and I find its fairly common in the music I listen to - to use 6 octaves. How do you get moog leads going without going up past C6?

Playing above C6 absolutely does not destroy your ears or sound crap by default. Only when you have loads of instruments aliasing at the top end. Besides, nobody said you had to play above C6 at ear splitting amplitudes...

each to his own is what I say.

I'm not going to enter a flame war about the relative merits of high octave moog leads - it was intended to prove the point below

It depends upon the sound, and depends upon the mix; as does the aliasing in vanguard.

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True but I generally find aliasing to be highly undesirable. It is a type of noise and it is impossible to limit or control in the case of Vanguard. The aliasing definitely killed that synth for me. Once I got onto my Virus B, it just sings in comparison to vanguard in the higher octaves partly because it aliases so much less and the filter is so much better.

Real analogues absolutely scream with pearcing clarity on the upper octaves. I guess I just like that kind of clarity. I know aliasing is a design feature of Vanguard but oof. It just grates me now >___<

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch As long as you can get the soft synths to play live solo, there shouldn't be any problem. You can bounce them to audio, which is basically what you would have to do with hardware synths anyways. Some people will say hardware sounds better than software. Well, not really, unless you're talking real analogue hardware. Imo, hardware synths aren't worth the price and hassle.

Why would you want to bounce your soft Synths to Audio? and how do you bounce them to audio? i'm using Ableton Live if you know but then I'm not sure what the point of it would be........

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Nowadays most software has a freeze function so you don't need to bounce anymore (same thing really).

I have 2 hardware synths, a Novation Nova and a Juno 60, plus lots of software VSTi's.

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quote:

Originally posted by michael00elder I'm maybe better off spending the money on a softsynth like Cakewalk Rapture or Z3TA+

As most people have figured out, I like Rapture quite a bit. It is a new synth so not many people know what it can do. If you missed it, I posted some trance style programs for it HERE

You just have to figure out how to program it. I liked some of the presets in Vanguard, but instead of buying Vanguard, I just created similar sounding programs in Rapture. I learned by reverse engineering presets and just experimenting. The lead programmer of Rapture (his name is Rene) often posts in the forum. He is the same guy who developed Z3TA+ as well.

Head over to the Cakewalk Instrument forums. People are posting some really good information and free programs for it.

Take care,
Adam


EDIT: There is a HUGE debate going on over at the Sonar forums about Hardware vs. Software. Here is the link if you are interested: CLICK HERE

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Last edited by David Adams on Jul-11-2006 at 16:40

Rene is a bit of genius. He makes quality synths and I have no idea how he keeps them CPU friendly. Even zeta+ isnt that bad a hit considering you are pushing 6 filtered oscillators at times...Unfortunately I never got into zeta+ because the demo fades out too often

Traingle 2 is the dogs and is so good, Cakewalk used to make a habit of recommending sonar users to download it.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative Rene is a bit of genius. He makes quality synths and I have no idea how he keeps them CPU friendly. Even zeta+ isnt that bad a hit considering you are pushing 6 filtered oscillators at times...Unfortunately I never got into zeta+ because the demo fades out too often Traingle 2 is the dogs and is so good, Cakewalk used to make a habit of recommending sonar users to download it.

Oh wow! I forgot I had Triangle 2. It came with my version of Sonar. I had dismissed all the free stuff I got with it in lieu of the ones I bought. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention. I just played with it and you are right, it is good!! I'll have to add some gated CamelSpace effects to make it even better

Take care,
Adam

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Both hardware and software are great! and I use both. It is shortsighted to limit yourself either way. Sometimes I am more creative with the board in front of me and sometimes I am more creative mousing around different knobs on screen.

But...

There are some things that hardware can do that software can't. For instance, I can never get the same sound out of software as:

I can runing my Juno-106 through my Pod PRO XT and then to the onxy preamps. This gives me a specific Goldfrapp, Portishead, Boards of candada sound that is only possible by taking a signal, running it through an analog filter then through a processor then through an analog pre-amp.

Or how about the creative possibilities of my AN1x and it's step sequencer and arp going through patches with all my controls there in front of me?

Then there is the Additive synth of my Kawai K5000s which is quite unique and there isn't any additive VSTi's that I'm aware of that could recreate this sound.

Then there is my oberheim Matrix 6R that is phat and silky sounding and has yet to be properly emulated in software.