i didn't say that's all it does. I'm not great, but i make full tracks in all sequencers. I said that's ableton's emphasis on the screen and in the workflow, that's why it's called Ableton LIVE. Otherwise it's the same as any other sequencer or tracker. It's audio warping is really not that unique. I suspect you haven't used cubase, fls, or logic as much as I. I really don't see that much special about ableton except for live performance. I think it's inferior otherwise. That's just my 2c. You are certainly free to disagree, but watch the ad hominems, son.

Right now, i do everything in max/msp and use ableton to play a set. Ableton's a fun toy, like fruity loops or reason. It is not cubase and certainly not pro-tools. And absolutely nowhere near max/msp, supercollider, or pd. Remember my thing is autechre, aphex, etc, so I need to use the latter apps like they do. Every kid on the block is making crappy ableton/ejay tunes today thanks to sasha and pvd promoting the toy for beer money. I love fruity and reason too. I love toys. But keep it in perspective.

p.s. do you even know that ableton was just one of monolake's patches for max/msp? How can something be superior to something it is a subset of? Can a word perfect document be a superior word processor to word perfect? You are really misinformed, illogical or both.

Last edited by Majutsu on Jul-29-2006 at 18:02

sorry i got a bitch slap goin'
it's probably because you're a texan and we cajuns have poor anger management skills.

c'est la vie mon cher from louisiana
peace bro

I switched from ableton to cubase.

Abletons arrange view just didn't do it for me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Majutsu
i didn't say that's all it does. I'm not great, but i make full tracks in all sequencers. I said that's ableton's emphasis on the screen and in the workflow, that's why it's called Ableton LIVE. Otherwise it's the same as any other sequencer or tracker. It's audio warping is really not that unique. I suspect you haven't used cubase, fls, or logic as much as I. I really don't see that much special about ableton except for live performance. I think it's inferior otherwise. That's just my 2c. You are certainly free to disagree, but watch the ad hominems, son.

Right now, i do everything in max/msp and use ableton to play a set. Ableton's a fun toy, like fruity loops or reason. It is not cubase and certainly not pro-tools. And absolutely nowhere near max/msp, supercollider, or pd. Remember my thing is autechre, aphex, etc, so I need to use the latter apps like they do. Every kid on the block is making crappy ableton/ejay tunes today thanks to sasha and pvd promoting the toy for beer money. I love fruity and reason too. I love toys. But keep it in perspective.

p.s. do you even know that ableton was just one of monolake's patches for max/msp? How can something be superior to something it is a subset of? Can a word perfect document be a superior word processor to word perfect? You are really misinformed, illogical or both. [/QUOTE


man the misinformed person are you!! just because u cant produce in ableton it doesnt mean it cant be done. and ableton is a professional application in all terms. i think its a dumb idea to stick with one tool when u can take advantage of many . i also use cubase as my main seuqencer, and there are many aspects in ableton is far superior. tools are there just use them. i know many professional producers ( and no not that sasha wimp guy) that are switching to live for producing. ableton is not a dj tool. dont be fool for that, ure so cool , just know everything about sequencers right masta???
then how the hell can u compare ableton with reason. i think u re either, stoned, blind or on some power trip.
ps.and yes ableton started as something as an upgrade for max/msp from monolake, but to call it a patch?!!! cmon u gotta be fuking kidding me!

Last edited by pixxxan on Jul-29-2006 at 19:03

i like most of what you say pixxxan, but you really need to understand something about max and ableton, because there you are just factually wrong. Max/msp is a visual computing language. You clearly have not used max, but if you ever used reaktor it's the same idea. Basically you have a bunch of spare parts (snippets of code), little boxes you string together, oscillators, filters, sliders, knobs, etc. When you make a patch in max/msp you make a program, a collection of sequencers and synthesizers, whatever you like. Monolake was using max/msp for a while. He had a PATCH he really liked, used all the time. He asked cycling'74, the max/msp company, if he could commercially sell his patch. It runs off c code and only the gui interface remains. It's just a max/msp patch with the inability to change anything. It's an amazing patch. Better than anything i could do, but its just a file saved in max/msp. i would love to have some of autechre's max/msp patches, they look like sequencers from mars. I can post the monolake interviews and the sound on sound interview with autechre so you can get a better idea. I bought ableton and use it, in case you didn't notice. but if i were a young man, learning production, i would learn max/msp and c, so i could make my own apps and my own sound. i am almost 40 and a little too old to wrap my head around such things. It's not about professional or non-professional when i say toy. lots of people use reason and fruity for professional work. I mean a toy, like a video game say, presents you with finite options to toggle. A programming language like max/msp or supercollider gives you complete freedom and artistic vision. This is why the very top experimental edm artists use max/msp or supercollider with hardware to build their own studios in essence. Sure they now bring in ableton's audio warp so as not to rewrite monolake's code over and over themselves. But if you want to understand sound design and are young enough to do it, learn to take it all the way to the top. For making generic party tracks and then moving on to "uni", ableton or reason is great, but if sound engineering is your life, you need to get to the technical level.

here's the autechre interview and make sure you look at his max/msp patches in the pictures --- holy shit . . . .

autechre max/msp interview

i have some max/msp patches from the ep7 album you can play with the max demo. let me know if you want them.

the wikipedia entry for ableton starts off with that it was a max/msp patch in the 80s. So with max you could have made ableton yourself 20 years ago, or you can wait 20 years to buy the patch for 500USD. One's a leader, one's a follower.

I want to find the ableton patch for you (and me). I've seen it on the web .. . that ought to impress you.

Last edited by Majutsu on Jul-29-2006 at 19:46

y thanx that was a very interesting reading. yes ure right i havent even tried max sequencer, and to be honest im not much of a tech guy. i realized how far this kind of working is from what im aiming too. it may be laziness, but i really like the simpleness of working in a laptop amidi controller and my favorite software. i think if i had the cash of course id have more and more hardware. it must be awesome to have all this gear on even more the knowledge to push it to the max.thing is i still have a lot to learn from my existing software. and also nothing beats getting up in the morning and work on a new track with the carribean ocean in front of u!
i think this is some kind of generation gap!!
hehe

live 6 and kore ftw

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