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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN by all means lira. tho my nazi grammar bias is probably at odds with your more mature outlook on life

I'm just a linguist

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN people seem to argue 'its only the internet' as a reason for their poor command of their language, when in reality theyre just ignorant and have never learned the correct way to write.

This "correct way to write" is what makes me wonder about the validity of orthography in general:

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN just browse almost any forum to see people dont have the basic skills to know their there from their

This is one of the main problems with the concept of "correct writing": homophones.

Speaking is a fairly natural communication channel: whereas you instincively learn to speak by immitation, you often need to be taught how to write. Should there be a "correct way to write", it should be instinctively correct to all speakers. However, that's not the case.

After the great vowel shift, and the lack of necessary spelling reforms during the last centuries, spelling in English has become redundant: you can write "there", "their" and "thare" (and, in some dialects, "they're") achieving the same phonetic results.

If someone's interpretation of texts is based on the phonetic equivalence, this is, by no means, "wrong": you can read "That's there mother" out loud and figure out what it means.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN writing easily understood and logical sentences isnt something you have to 'try' at once youve learned how, its something you just do. people that say 'its only the internet' but really they write well elsewhere = liars.

Not really. Although I do suck at it (i.e. I tend to sound extremely informal in most environments when speaking Portuguese), this is a well-studied phenomenom in linguistics, known as code-switching.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i wouldnt blame texts or instant messaging for people's shit understanding of language, id say it merely compounds their already shit abilities.

If teens manage to communicate that way, how can you say their understanding is poor? They sent messages, they receive messages and they can interpret what's been said quite efficiently.

___________________
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well, you have rather over-intellectualised my initial gripe, but ill roll with the punches and attempt to continue...

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Originally posted by Lira I'm just a linguist This \"correct way to write\" is what makes me wonder about the validity of orthography in general: This is one of the main problems with the concept of \"correct writing\": homophones.

well, when i say 'correct' i mean that the language follows well-established rules and conventions. these rules allow us to iron-out ambiguities that can enter language if youre not paying attention.

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Originally posted by Lira Speaking is a fairly natural communication channel: whereas you instincively learn to speak by immitation, you often need to be taught how to write. Should there be a \"correct way to write\", it should be instinctively correct to all speakers. However, that's not the case. After the great vowel shift, and the lack of necessary spelling reforms during the last centuries, spelling in English has become redundant: you can write \"there\", \"their\" and \"thare\" (and, in some dialects, \"they're\") achieving the same phonetic results. If someone's interpretation of texts is based on the phonetic equivalence, this is, by no means, \"wrong\": you can read \"That's there mother\" out loud and figure out what it means.

but we're not talking about the spoken word. in a written context such errors are damn irritating, and can easily lead to misunderstandings, or being forced to re-read a sentence. and you can learn how to write via immitation as well- just by reading published material you gain a greater understanding of how language works and is used. im not gonna give credit to my english teachers for how i write- i learned how to write by reading a lot.

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Originally posted by Lira If teens manage to communicate that way, how can you say their understanding is poor? They sent messages, they receive messages and they can interpret what's been said quite efficiently.

because, in a formal environment, where they are required to follow the rules (whatever they may be) their skills and understanding ARE poor. and, if as you so rightly argue, people need to be taught these skills, their mate on MSN butchering the english language isnt going to help them if theyre not also gaining experience from formal sources.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN people seem to argue 'its only the internet' as a reason for their poor command of their language, when in reality theyre just ignorant and have never learned the correct way to write. writing easily understood and logical sentences isnt something you have to 'try' at once youve learned how, its something you just do. people that say 'its only the internet' but really they write well elsewhere = liars.

Not necessarily. As a teenager I had my brief phase of "be-teh-1337est-h4x0r-sp34k3r-on-34rth" and could always distinguish between context, writing properly on school. Actually I think the use of the internet was very benefitial to my writing skills, all these years of TA and other forums gave me some knowledge on argumentation.

L0Lz! I sey letz all go ahad wit inglish speling reform!

EVERYONE! JOIN :
http://www.spellingsociety.org/




Or else let's all go with SoundSpel

Kick arse munch0rz spelling beeéz harcorEéz!

Wouldn,t splleing like tis kik ass?

SoundSpel texts

1. The Star (HG Wells)

It was on the ferst dae of the nue yeer the anounsment was maed, allmoest siemultaeniusly frum three obzervatorys, that the moeshun of the planet Neptune, the outermoest of all planets that wheel about the Sun, had becum verry erratic. A retardaeshun in its velosity had bin suspected in Desember. Then a faent, remoet spek of liet was discuverd in the reejon of the perterbd planet. At ferst this did not cauz eny verry graet exsietment. Sieentific peepl, however, found the intelijens remarkabl enuf, eeven befor it becaem noen that the nue body was rapidly groeing larjer and brieter, and that its moeshun was qiet different frum the orderly progres of the planets.