quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Try using another sequencer. FL Studio Reason Cubase (advanced) Ableton Live Try out the demo versions. The software you're currently using offers limitations.

Of course, no mention of Sonar. I don't get it.

Can someone explain to me why Cakewalk products are rarely mentioned in the forum? I would like a good explanation of why this is.

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Off topic... Take it to the production forum.

But anyways.

Odd... Haven't thought about it before now.
I've tried it once, and didn't like it. The UI is really messy and outdated.
I also don't think it gives a proper "bang for the buck". $800 for the producer version... Cubase SX3 goes for $500.

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quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Off topic... Take it to the production forum.

I did

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=362501

They have special deals all the time. You shouldn't have to spend that much on it!

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@ Corteoz

Just to keep the thread off topic a little longer. From the Cakewalk Website

quote:

$349.00 SONAR 5 Producer Upgrade for Home Studio, Project5, Pro Audio, Guitar Tracks Pro, Kinetic, and Music Creator Customers

How much is kinetic?. So for roughly $450.00 you can get Sonar 5 Producer Edition (with currently an offer to upgrade to Sonar 6 for free) and you also get Kinetic thrown in to the bargain. Cakewalk have some pretty good offers if you already own one of their products, it doesnt really matter which one.

Sonar and Cubase are on a par with each other IMO. Cubase is not without its problems. Neither is Sonar perfect either.

As to project 5, there are very few limitations from a soft synth workstation point of view. Its also a very intuitive compositional tool. Its built for workflow and as such throws off many of the contraints that trap the traditional sequencers (and does things completely different). Its weakness is working with audio which it can record but not edit. Having spent some time with Ableton Live as well. I would rate it similarly to that.

P5 and Live share many similarities, Live works on more performance basis, P5 works on more compositional. Live has more strengths (a lot more) when it comes to audio. P5 has a better workflow and has some fantastic midi editing features and also features a few excellent softsynths to get you going. Velocity is a more than capable drum sample, npulse can get some good sounds, Dimension is, to put it mildly a fantastic sampler, and psynII is no slouch either. (its also available for about 99$ as an upgrade to Sonar users on occasion)

If you want some more examples of Project 5 only tracks have a listen to the tracks in my signature.

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@ Corteoz

Just to keep the thread off topic a little longer. From the Cakewalk Website

quote:

$349.00 SONAR 5 Producer Upgrade for Home Studio, Project5, Pro Audio, Guitar Tracks Pro, Kinetic, and Music Creator Customers

How much is kinetic?. So for roughly $450.00 you can get Sonar 5 Producer Edition (with currently an offer to upgrade to Sonar 6 for free) and you also get Kinetic thrown in to the bargain. Cakewalk have some pretty good offers if you already own one of their products, it doesnt really matter which one.

Sonar and Cubase are on a par with each other IMO. Cubase is not without its problems. Neither is Sonar perfect either.

As to project 5, there are very few limitations from a soft synth workstation point of view. Its also a very intuitive compositional tool. Its built for workflow and as such throws off many of the contraints that trap the traditional sequencers (and does things completely different). Its weakness is working with audio which it can record but not edit. Having spent some time with Ableton Live as well. I would rate it similarly to that.

P5 and Live share many similarities, Live works on more performance basis, P5 works on more compositional. Live has more strengths (a lot more) when it comes to audio. P5 has a better workflow and has some fantastic midi editing features and also features a few excellent softsynths to get you going. Velocity is a more than capable drum sample, npulse can get some good sounds, Dimension is, to put it mildly a fantastic sampler, and psynII is no slouch either. (its also available for about 99$ as an upgrade to Sonar users on occasion)

If you want some more examples of Project 5 only tracks have a listen to the tracks in my signature.

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Stuart
www.soundclick.com/syrath

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz I saw something about Project 5. That’s a starter sequencer. Try out FL Studio, Reason or Ableton Live.

While I respect the opinion of Corteoz and the fact that he took the time to make many comments (most of which were not only valid but contstructive) I just wanted to rebut the preceding quote. Perhaps Corteoz isn't aware of the evolution Project5 has seen. It's hardly a STARTER package. It is most definitely in the same arena as Reason and Live (and in fact, it is a culmination of both of these now).

Granted, it's no ProTools or Logic, but cmon...let's be fair. Corteoz is obviously biased and I just wanted to reiterate that there are many artists that have had some degree of success working entirely in Project5. I just signed a few tracks to a label myself, and I only use P5. It depends what you put into something...if it seems like only a starter sequencer to you then you've only put a 'starting' effort into it.

Just my 2cents. And I loved this track AndyC! Many points were bang on in the critique though, and I'd say that taking much of this advice would make for some great psy-trance!

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Good input!

I tried a demo of the first release of P5. I believe it was 1.0.
I was not at all impressed. The workflow did not suit my needs and the whole UI seemed limiting. I must admit that I may have pre judged the software, but what I've read of reviews and based on what I experienced when trying the demo, it didn't feel like a pro sequencer. Well, I've probably just been an offer to "confirmation bias". I'm very open to others opinions, and I'll try out P5 2.0 if I get the chance just to see if I'm missing anything.

I was also trying to make a point out of a tool is what you make out of it. I think every artist needs to find a sequencer they feel at home in. I did so in FL Studio.

@R2Project: Try some of the other sequencers. Download the demo versions. See if any of them fits your needs better.
If you still think P5 is the right tool for you, try getting to know it a lot better and tweak and fiddle around with every control there is.
Then you'll probably learn a lot of new things that'll help you produce better. Try doing the arranging inside P5 instead of exporting to Sonar. That way you might get rid of bad timing.

___________________
- Just be who you are...

KORG KARMA Music Workstation
Roland JP-8000
SONY MDR-7506
ECHO MIA MIDI
STK VX-804FX console mixer
THX Audio ST-90 Studio monitors
It's a real bedroom studio!

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2122

Have a look at the video on this page to get a small handle on the improvements that V2 brought. Project 5 does suffer from the V1 release. Although you see in the video that its billed as a live performance program I would say its not up to the same standard as Live in this respect. However its midi editing workflow is far superior to every other DAW program Ive worked with.

If you like what you see in the video you can get the demo from the cakewalk page. The on street price has just been announced to have been dropped to $199 and it has a major update on the way (many of the changes being customer driven). I think that this should bring it up to date. Dont let your V1 prejudice get in the way though.

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www.soundclick.com/syrath

That video makes me want to upgrade to it; however, I just spent $200 on Sonar 5 Studio - I just couldn't pass up the August deal that was going on. Get that and you get Sonar 6 for free when it comes out. Just too hard not to pass up.

We should probably post that video and take the discussion over to the Production Studio forum. I will post it over there...

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$99 upgrade for you ($198 with dimension pro)

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Stuart
www.soundclick.com/syrath

Good call. I've never tried FL for the same reason you didn't like P5, Cort! I thought, with a name like Frooty Loops I'd rather spring for good sequencer then buy something that sounds like a sugar cereal. The GUI of FL looks tremendous. I even went so far as to tell the Cakewalk design team that the new P5v2 interface was cold and bland, even though much more practical. If you recall, version 1 had a black background which was quite cool.
Anyways... I still think for dance/trance Project5 is 'the' best application/sequencer out there. It lets you play LIVE, it lets you play third party synths and it lets you be creative 'right outta the box'. It takes some experience to get the same 'compressed, radio-ready' sound out of its drum kits then Reason or FL, but I really believe it is MORE feature packed then any other one application.

ANdyC...sorry for the hijack...enjoy the free 'bump'!

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Apologies, this should have been posted a couple of hours ago, forgot to press send. Silly me !

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz @R2Project: Try some of the other sequencers. Download the demo versions. See if any of them fits your needs better.

Actually I have tried other sequencers, an earlier version of Fruity, Orion, Cubase. We've got a Logic and Pro Tools L.E system downstairs. Still prefer P5 and Sonar

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz If you still think P5 is the right tool for you, try getting to know it a lot better and tweak and fiddle around with every control there is.

I think most people who know me will agree I actually know P5 inside and out, hope you don't think that's a boast! I've been using it since verison 1 came along. Even written a tutorial on it for "Computer Music" magazine. I admit that doesn't help on the musical side though !

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Try doing the arranging inside P5 instead of exporting to Sonar. That way you might get rid of bad timing.

Now this is interesting ! I normally do do all the mixing inside P5, in this case I was experimenting with using Sonar, first off for it's V-Vocal capabilities and secondly so I could use it's advanced bussing. I was also hitting a major CPU wall with 40 odd tracks of softsynths going in P5 and simply couldn't add any more EQ, compression or anything else. Most tracks where frozen so at that point I thought, why not try in the audio domain only.

Now either I've made a mistake with placing the audio in the Sonar, certainly possible, or there is a more serious problem. Corteoz, or someone, I'd really appreciate it if you could point out a timing problem so I can go examine it and see where the trouble is.

Once again thansk to everyone for the opinions, just hope I'm not coming off as a dick or anything !

Peace,
Andy

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