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Originally posted by George Smiley It's a different kind of propaganda. It's not the same as what you describe above. Western governments are spreading and encouraging anti-Islam propaganda to promote their own agendas in the Middle East.

...like?

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They peddle false information about Islamic terrorists, what their aims are, what their greviences are, etc.

What unlike the video and tapes they GIVE us??

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They create an environment where the public begin to see Islam as the problem, not just this minority extremism. They'll encourage people to look at the Koran and decide it "allows" violence and the only logical conclusion is that all Muslims believe in this.

So by simply reporting it, they're spreading propaganda and lies...right...

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Tony Blair continuously claims the 7/7 bombings occured not because of British foriegn policy but because "they hate us and our way of life". This, despite the people who carried out the attack stating it was because of the Iraq war. This propaganda is being peddled by our governments, their supporters and sections of our media. Just look at some of the posters on here to see the effects!!

No, they (the extremists) do hate us and everything we stand for actually...

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I don't think America carried out the 9/11 attacks but the Bush administration definately shot their load at hearing the good news. This is not a war on terror, this is PNAC's plan (which I have posted on another thread) which they drew up in 2000 to secure American military and economic global domination. It's all there in black and white explaining how they will be unable to muster public support without a tragic event like Pearle Harbour. Now they got that event, they need to maintain anti-Muslim sentiments in the population so they can continue pursuing their Middle Eastern policies and they acheive that by spreading and encouraging anti-Muslim propaganda

Sorry, don't have enough tin-foil for this paragraph!

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...like? What unlike the video and tapes they GIVE us?? So by simply reporting it, they're spreading propaganda and lies...right... No, they (the extremists) do hate us and everything we stand for actually... Sorry, don't have enough tin-foil for this paragraph!

Ah, the main victim of anti-Islamic propaganda comes to back up my point! Cheers mate!

As for the last paragraph, you don't need tin-foil just a pair of eyes and a fucking brain...

http://www.newamericancentury.org/R...casDefenses.pdf

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Originally posted by George Smiley This is not a war on terror, this is PNAC's plan (which I have posted on another thread) which they drew up in 2000 to secure American military and economic global domination. It's all there in black and white explaining how they will be unable to muster public support without a tragic event like Pearl Harbour. Now they got that event, they need to maintain anti-Muslim sentiments in the population so they can continue pursuing their Middle Eastern policies and they acheive that by spreading and encouraging anti-Muslim propaganda

thats so not what that report says or means.

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Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event "like a new Pearl Harbor". The odd word here seems to be "transformation". What do they mean? Let's look back to the beginning of the same chapter. "To preserve American military preeminence in the coming decades, the Department of Defense must move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts, and seek to exploit the emerging revolution in military affairs. Information technologies,in particular, are becoming more prevalent and significant components of modern military systems. These information technologies are having the same kind of transforming effects on military affairs as they are having in the larger world. The effects of this military transformation will have profound implications for how wars are fought, what kinds of weapons will dominate the battlefield and, inevitably, which nations enjoy military preeminence". So "transformation" refers to the process of introducing more information technologies into the military. What does 9/11 have to do with that? Nothing at all. In fact, the attacks demonstrated that one of the PNAC's pet schemes, a global missile shield, is entirely useless when planes can become bombs. Now, its certainly true that Bush has continued to fund it, and with significant budget increases immediately post 9/11, but who says he wouldnt have done so anyway? The reality is that the attacks themselves only give ammunition to hjs critics. And some of them had it immediately: Some elected officials got the message. Sen. Carl Levin told Rumsfeld at a June 2001 hearing that we were lavishing money on missile defense and not "putting enough emphasis on countering the most likely threats to our national security ... like terrorist attacks."

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Back to the PNAC, where there's still the "Pearl Harbor" aspect. What did they mean by that? We can get an indication from the one other sentence in the document that uses the phrase. "Absent a rigorous program of experimentation to investigate the nature of the revolution in military affairs as it applies to war at sea, the Navy might face a future Pearl Harbor as unprepared for war in the post-carrier era as it was unprepared for war at the dawn of the carrier age". The use of Pearl Harbour here means "a form of attack which we don't have the technology to counter", which now lets us make more sense of the first quote. All they're saying is that "the process of updating the US military will take a long time, unless the problems are made apparent by an attack that reveals our technical failings". 9/11 undoubtedly revealed failings in intelligence and response on the day, but nothing that matches the PNACs agenda. Theres no military technology fix that would have prevented it.

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Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on Sep-07-2006 at 13:27

So basically they use "Pearl Harbour" in one context, therefore they use it the same in the sentence I'm talking about? And what do they mean by "catacysing"?

And we are of course only talking about one document out of dozens the PNAC and their members/supporters have produced outlining their plans. You might wanna read the Present Danger as well, or the letter they sent to Clinton begging him to invade Iraq. The article I posted above is purely about reshaping US military. There are articles and documents covering all aspects of their plans for global dominance. And is this particular article not about global military dominance?

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Originally posted by George Smiley So basically they use "Pearl Harbour" in one context, therefore they use it the same in the sentence I'm talking about? And what do they mean by "cataclysing"?

yes. there are two references to pearl harbour in that entire document and they both sound the same to me.

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Originally posted by George Smiley And we are of course only talking about one document out of dozens the PNAC and their members/supporters have produced outlining their plans. You might wanna read the Present Danger as well, or the letter they sent to Clinton begging him to invade Iraq. The article I posted above is purely about reshaping US military. There are articles and documents covering all aspects of their plans for global dominance. And is this particular article not about global military dominance?

meh. i dont care. all i am arguing is that your comment regarding pearl harbour in the context of this particular document is unfounded and innaccurate/dishonest and makes you sound like one of those 9/11 nutjobs.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yes. there are two references to pearl harbour in that entire document and they both sound the same to me. meh. i dont care. all i am arguing is that your comment regarding pearl harbour in the context of this particular document is unfounded and innaccurate/dishonest and makes you sound like one of those 9/11 nutjobs.

Er maybe you misunderstand what I meant by it?

I am not in no way or shape inplying the American government had anything to do with the attacks, just that they are using the attacks to further their neoconservative agenda which they were unable to pursue prior to the attacks...

Why shouldnt the figures be examined. After all it is "us" pushing for freedom and reform in the middle east.

They are simply excersing their rights.

What more is, ive read alot of evidence to support the claim that the figures are a farse so why not allow a group of people to examine the evidence and allow others to make their own mind up.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Er maybe you misunderstand what I meant by it? I am not in no way or shape inplying the American government had anything to do with the attacks, just that they are using the attacks to further their neoconservative agenda which they were unable to pursue prior to the attacks...

ok, but then what does this mean?

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Originally posted by George Smiley which they drew up in 2000 to secure American military and economic global domination. It's all there in black and white explaining how they will be unable to muster public support without a tragic event like Pearle Harbour.

the whole pearl harbour thing does not read as though they are talking about mustering public support for war at all, it reads as though theyre speaking of military technologies and if they were compromised by superior technology/technical failings. well, thats how it reads to me at least

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George it is realy not possible to compare the propoganda and brainwashing that little kids go through in Iran to what USA does to gain support for war in Iraq. US goverment doesn't brainwash its children. and like I said in this thread, kids in Israel learn in schools about peace and sing songs about peace. Arab kids are brainwahed with hatred.

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