quote:

Originally posted by lunamore I don't know if this is cheating? I think it is more like learning...?

The way to learn is by doing. You can look at other people's work as much as you want, but it won't get you any further ahead in the learning process.

I also think it's kind of funny to say (MT) that it's not cheating "unless you could recognize the original" - that's basically the same as saying "it's not cheating unless you get caught". Good technical production does not make up for a generic, cliché melody.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I also think it's kind of funny to say (MT) that it's not cheating "unless you could recognize the original" - that's basically the same as saying "it's not cheating unless you get caught". Good technical production does not make up for a generic, cliché melody.

i disagree.. i think its the result that counts, making something based on what u hear, or making something based on a MIDI, is just the same prinicple. You can hear something and remake something based on what you hear, or you can remake something based on the MIDI.

and i have never cheated with MIDI, im too fond of remixing tracks instead.

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I also think it's kind of funny to say (MT) that it's not cheating "unless you could recognize the original" - that's basically the same as saying "it's not cheating unless you get caught". Good technical production does not make up for a generic, cliché melody.

I also disagree, and agree to what subtle say. I mean, if i learn by litening to a track, i can learn eaven more by taking it down to its bits.

So by taking a midi from soemthing you really like and the recreate it to your own idea is not cheating. And who is to judge in this matter? I think no one, cus thats how the music industry has been as long as i can remeber.

You listen to a track, and you think its good, however you have an idea to make it better. So you start off with the original midi, and the you start sketch on the melody you want, change the cords, and the pattern, and in the end you may have a killer tune that is often nothing alike what it came from. Cus then its all anbout how you put the track together!?

___________________
Download my tracks at AJ-tunes!
ajtunes.com/onova

Latest tune:Dj Eco - Paradise now (Onova remix) [Lunatique records]

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I also think it's kind of funny to say (MT) that it's not cheating "unless you could recognize the original" - that's basically the same as saying "it's not cheating unless you get caught". Good technical production does not make up for a generic, cliché melody.

But surely if you cannot recognise the original, it is in essence a new melody. Whether its inspiration was listening to another melody, or using the MIDI of another melody - I don't see a difference.

It's a widely used technique in all forms of art to take other pieces of art as inspiration, I don't see MIDI as being any different.

I've not ever done this, but I'm definietly going to give it a go with some of my favorite tracks.

___________________
check out my tunes and my mixes on soundcloud
my released tunes

There's no such thing as cheating. If you take someone else's melody and change it and better it, all good to you. Like Sting says, "good composers borrow, great composers steal".

I mean, if someone takes a track you wrote, copies the melody, changes it enough to be different, and then has a huge hit track and makes millions, are you gonna scream "you cheated, you rewrote my melody, I want some of your money"? Unless you can prove that it's the melody you wrote and used, you ain't gonna get squat.

___________________
Layered Sounds Radio Show
Myspace
The DJ List

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay I mean, if someone takes a track you wrote, copies the melody, changes it enough to be different, and then has a huge hit track and makes millions, are you gonna scream "you cheated, you rewrote my melody, I want some of your money"? Unless you can prove that it's the melody you wrote and used, you ain't gonna get squat.

And because you wouldn't win anything in court, that makes it okay?

Besides, even if someone copied the melody, harmony, drums, and entire arrangement wholesale, and made millions, you still wouldn't get anything. You can't copyright that. Intellectual Property only takes the form of an actual production or sheet music (in the case of sheet music it's only illegal to reproduce the score itself for profit, not illegal to use parts of it in a production).

Subtle, you're right in a sense, making something based on what you hear and making something based on a MIDI is going to achieve a similar result, but at least you're honing an actual skill by doing the former. You're working on your musical memory, your sense of pitch, your ability to recognize chords, etc. In instrumental music this is called ear training.

It's all fine and good to study a MIDI or a sheet-music arrangement if you want to learn about arrangement and chord progression. That's done all the time in theory classes. There is, however, nothing educational or honourable about taking it a step further and using it as a basis for something you proceed to call an original work.

If you credit the original author then that's fine. Classical composers did this all the time with pieces titled "Variations on theme by _________". And these pieces were much more different from the original than most of the ripped-off trance I hear. But then that's obvious isn't it - there's no plagiarism when credit is given.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay There's no such thing as cheating. If you take someone else's melody and change it and better it, all good to you. Like Sting says, "good composers borrow, great composers steal".

and the best composers just compose by themself

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Besides, even if someone copied the melody, harmony, drums, and entire arrangement wholesale, and made millions, you still wouldn't get anything. You can't copyright that. Intellectual Property only takes the form of an actual production or sheet music

Yes you would, if someone did that you could take them to the cleaners. I don't know why you think that you wouldn't. That's what intellectual property copyright is there for. You are incredibly wrong.

___________________
check out my tunes and my mixes on soundcloud
my released tunes

I don't consider it cheating in the least. As has been already stated, its a great way to learn. You will definitely limit your growth as a musician if you don't look at how other composers do what they do. We all pick up tricks of the trade - if you will. We come here to learn about mastering, composing, etc. Other's songs are just another means by which to learn by.

___________________

http://www.davidadamsmusic.com

quote:

Originally posted by David Adams I don't consider it cheating in the least. As has been already stated, its a great way to learn. You will definitely limit your growth as a musician if you don't look at how other composers do what they do. We all pick up tricks of the trade - if you will. We come here to learn about mastering, composing, etc. Other's songs are just another means by which to learn by.

I couldn't agree more. Dissecting a pros work to gain inspiration and find out how to make a "proper" track is all part of the learning curve, most definitely. Its a really good way for people that aren't experienced enough to know how things work both musically and arrangement wise (note placings etc). I have learnt a lot myself from various midi files and will use them for knowledge gathering and inspiration and remixes, for the foreseeable future.

PC

___________________
Trance is our religion and Armin is our god!

quote:

Besides, even if someone copied the melody, harmony, drums, and entire arrangement wholesale, and made millions, you still wouldn't get anything. You can't copyright that. Intellectual Property only takes the form of an actual production or sheet music (in the case of sheet music it's only illegal to reproduce the score itself for profit, not illegal to use parts of it in a production).

Yes you could, that's the purpose of copyright, for melody anyway.

quote:

I don't consider it cheating in the least. As has been already stated, its a great way to learn. You will definitely limit your growth as a musician if you don't look at how other composers do what they do. We all pick up tricks of the trade - if you will. We come here to learn about mastering, composing, etc. Other's songs are just another means by which to learn by.

Agreed

___________________
Layered Sounds Radio Show
Myspace
The DJ List