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Originally posted by occrider This is the government we're talking about. Not Mckinsey. Besides that, all the McKinsey folk I know are blowhards (although my personal experience is irrelevant to the discussion).

Right--and I was responding to the question of "imagine if the private sector worked like that...". I was just pointing out that there are pockets in the private sector that DO work like that.

And you are right--with the exception of a couple of really good friends (and one father-in-law), most McKinsey folks think they are God's gift to the business world. The people aside, the firm is one of the most respected names in the business world and there is a reason for that. Whether you disagree with the whole "up-or-out" mantra, it enables them to retain the best talent and pay some of the highest salaries in the business. McKinsey on your resume is one of the best things you can have going for you if you're in the business world--even if you are a raging blowhard.

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Originally posted by Shakka Whether you disagree with the whole "up-or-out" mantra, it enables them to retain the best talent and pay some of the highest salaries in the business.

Am I just missing the whole point or something? how do you retain the talent when you boot them if they don't get a promotion they applied for? Is that not the essence of up-or-out (never heard of it before now).

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Originally posted by Q5echo no one said he was ignored. he just failed to qualify for Commander...again! JAG officers are LDO (limited duty officers) they get lumped in together with all the other LDO's at the selection board. the selection board looks at a faceless (although i think there is a picture in there) FITREPs and performance evals and are gone over with a fine tooth comb for administative and clerical errors by many senior ranking board members. there is a point system tallied for every applicant and is basically the final word but it is not known by non-board personel.

Very well, I can't win this argument because I can't say definitively that he was passed up for promotion because of his success in beating the government. I simply don't have any insight (limited by the complete lack of transparency) into his promotion process and why he was denied promotion. I can say that his denied promotion is extremely suspicious given the circumstances of the situation and his auspicious credentials and references as a lawyer.

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thats all moot really. the FACT is, and is a fact you are ignoring, that he was obviously passed over at least once before for the same rank. otherwise this wouldn't be an issue at his 20 year mark. all officers are subject to this system of "up or out" at all ranks except Flag

Sooo fill me in, how often does this happen? Being passed up for promotion the first go around?

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by occrider Sooo fill me in, how often does this happen? Being passed up for promotion the first go around?

to be honest, i was in the Navy over 9 years, i can only think of one luitenant get passed over once. i don't know if it happened again on his next eval cycle. there could have been more had i paid a little more attention but the officers liked to keep that stuff amongst themselves.

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Originally posted by skot_e Am I just missing the whole point or something? how do you retain the talent when you boot them if they don't get a promotion they applied for? Is that not the essence of up-or-out (never heard of it before now).

They drive them to be the best. It's an incredibly competitive corporate culture that I would never want to be a part of. However, if memory serves, the average McKinsey tenure actually isn't that long.