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Originally posted by Allied Nations It is an ethical/artistic debate, however, a lot of this is buisness and there is money going around because of these works and for the most part the reason samples go uncleared is because there's a money issue. Sure, there are sometimes artistic conflicts about in what ways the original artist wants his/her work used, but for the most part its a question of money.

Don't disagree at all with any of that, money makes the world go round, right?

But I guess I'd just never thought about it from that point of view before. Sure, I knew that samples had to be licensed, but honestly figured if you did it right, surely there wouldn't be a problem. Admittedly, that's an INCREDIBLY idealistic viewpoint and certainly doesn't take into account business factors, it's just the first lens that pops into my mind when I think about the question.

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by Allied Nations What if it sounded really really fucking good? Why can't I make a piece of music out of other pieces of music? Why isn't this art?

I'm not sure I understand... perhaps you misread something I posted?

when it comes to sampling i see two different categories. sampling structural parts of a song i.e. kick drums, snares, bla bla bla...and sampling vocal or effects.

i don't necessarily see a problem with either of these, but of course it needs to be kept original.


one thing i don't like about sampling is i think it perhaps makes people a little less inclined to learn how to use their equipment and make their own sounds. i think that's something that is really important in a producer. if you look at all the best producers out there, they are always fresh sounding and have beautiful sounds in their work and it's because they really understand how to manipulate the technology to what they want.

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Originally posted by david.michael I'm not sure I understand... perhaps you misread something I posted?

No, I think I understand perfectly - you think samples should only be a small part of a tune. Number one, how do you define small part or background element and why do I have to follow those guidelines?

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Originally posted by Allied Nations What if it sounded really really fucking good? Why can't I make a piece of music out of other pieces of music? Why isn't this art?

What it all comes down to is where do we draw the line? What is appropriate and inappropriate with regard to sample use?

I think it 's exceptionally hard to define unless we're talking about specific works. Until you hear a piece, you can't really have an informed opinion on it, and when you're talking about appropriate sample use in a track that doesn't exist, it is near impossible to set a rigid guideline regarding broad or general rules for using samples.

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by Allied Nations What if it sounded really really fucking good? Why can't I make a piece of music out of other pieces of music? Why isn't this art?

That would be a remix, wouldn't it?

@ david.michael: thanks for clarifying your initial post.

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Originally texted by Jakhira Out with the dog at the moment. Chicks love him, and I love chicks... The world is in harmony

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Originally posted by Floorfiller when it comes to sampling i see two different categories. sampling structural parts of a song i.e. kick drums, snares, bla bla bla...and sampling vocal or effects. i don't necessarily see a problem with either of these, but of course it needs to be kept original. one thing i don't like about sampling is i think it perhaps makes people a little less inclined to learn how to use their equipment and make their own sounds. i think that's something that is really important in a producer. if you look at all the best producers out there, they are always fresh sounding and have beautiful sounds in their work and it's because they really understand how to manipulate the technology to what they want.

+1, excellent post.

The bold part is something I admittedly still have to work on as a producer. Not necessarily with sampling so much as using pre-made (or only moderately modified) synth patches, etc.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller when it comes to sampling i see two different categories. sampling structural parts of a song i.e. kick drums, snares, bla bla bla...and sampling vocal or effects. i don't necessarily see a problem with either of these, but of course it needs to be kept original. one thing i don't like about sampling is i think it perhaps makes people a little less inclined to learn how to use their equipment and make their own sounds. i think that's something that is really important in a producer. if you look at all the best producers out there, they are always fresh sounding and have beautiful sounds in their work and it's because they really understand how to manipulate the technology to what they want.

True, but I know some producers who know their shit inside out but still chose to steal all their kicks from old 70s disco records never even thinking about having those samples cleared. Is that ok?

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller one thing i don't like about sampling is i think it perhaps makes people a little less inclined to learn how to use their equipment and make their own sounds. i think that's something that is really important in a producer. if you look at all the best producers out there, they are always fresh sounding and have beautiful sounds in their work and it's because they really understand how to manipulate the technology to what they want.

By the same token, people can learn how to use and manipulate new and different technologies to alter and use samples in new and interesting ways that can be wholely unique.

A "master" sampler can should be able to use or alter samples so you have little to no idea what, if any, samples they're using.

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by Allied Nations True, but I know some producers who know their shit inside out but still chose to steal all their kicks from old 70s disco records never even thinking about having those samples cleared. Is that ok?

If nobody knows about it, sure

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by Allied Nations No, I think I understand perfectly - you think samples should only be a small part of a tune. Number one, how do you define small part or background element and why do I have to follow those guidelines?

No, I don't think it has to be a small part of a tune. What I was referring to is just taking an entire section of song and using it as an entire section of your own, essentially.

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Originally posted by RJT What it all comes down to is where do we draw the line? What is appropriate and inappropriate with regard to sample use? I think it 's exceptionally hard to define unless we're talking about specific works. Until you hear a piece, you can't really have an informed opinion on it, and when you're talking about appropriate sample use in a track that doesn't exist, it is near impossible to set a rigid guideline regarding broad or general rules for using samples.

So each sample work should be reviewed in an individual basis?

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Originally posted by TOR That would be a remix, wouldn't it? @ david.michael: thanks for clarifying your initial post.

What is a remix and how is it different from any other work of art?

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.