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Originally posted by Shakka On the contrary--I think it's getting plenty of attention. I have condemned both sides of the aisle for things that I find deeply disturbing. Amazing how some of you guys can draw such a clear line in the sand over this issue when it is so gray it's funny.

Hence the distinction between "warrants" and "[is] getting."

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One of the most level-headed liberals I work with (and a good friend) agrees that this issue (no matter how much you think it's just "meaningless fiction") is likely to do Mr. Webb in.

It's possible. "Instead, it only serves as a grim reminder of the failures of our political system."

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My god it's just fucking gross. I've seen and read some pretty fucking disturbing tings in my life, but this is some pretty disturbing stuff. If you don't even flinch when you read that...you are more deeply depraved than I.

I'll take that as a compliment. It's amusing that in a war novel, what's really disturbing isn't the mass destruction or countless lives lost - it's the mildly lewd conduct.

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Originally posted by occrider Are you equating sexual conversations with a minor with a fictional novel that portrays an actual South East Asian custom?

Don't be so thick-headed.

I think you guys are getting to defensive to understand Shakka's point. Virginia is a high stakes game and this could be the stone that tips the scale away from Webb. Of course Allen is going to use this to his favor.

You can rationalize it as much as you want. No matter because its going to be the hot topic on the morning news. Compare it to Foley, compare it to whatever, the fact its even being discussed is bad for the Dems in VA.

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Originally posted by Shakka Don't be so thick-headed.

I'm not. You're the one who initially equivocated the two. I assume then that you ackowledge that there's a clear distinction.

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You live up there. If you're that comfortable with it, I implore you to vote for the guy. Certainly not something I'd ever want in one of my elected officials.

I acknowledge that peoples' thoughts are their own personal rights, no matter how dark and depraved they may be. It's not illegal, but it is certainly disturbing to read stuff like that. And Occ, it's not ALL some South Asian custom. There are several books being quoted/profiled so it seems more like Webb has a thing for underage sexually deviant fantasy. I really don't think the vaginal banana slicing is a custom. It sounds a lot more to me like some seriously fucked up fetish/fantasy. When you put that down on paper and sell it, you're opening yourself up to a lot of criticism. Where I'm from people like that are generally thought of as "creepy" and probably not fit for public office.

Certainly you can acknowledge that this isn't just typical "fiction?" Or do you have a bookshelf full of this stuff that you like to read between Grant's and Liar's Poker?

Last edited by Shakka on Oct-27-2006 at 18:54

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Originally posted by Shakka One of my favorite movies actually. I haven't had the time to read the novel though. Did Ellis actually run for public office? I probably wouldn't have voted for him though. I'd prefer my elected officials spend their time doing something more productive than imagining sucking their little sons' peepees and slicing bananas with vagina muscles. I got $10 that says Webb loses almost entirely due to this well-timed GOP election ploy. I got a paypal account. Who wants in?

Oh, i'm still guessing he's fucked, but I don't think rightly so. As I said, it was a good ploy, they waited until 10 days before the election to drop this, giving him little time to react and explain. We all know how Americans view anything remotely sexually deviant, so this was an easy target.

Also, I said IF Easton Ellis would run, he didn't. The novel is WAY more graphic than the movie. The sick shit he does in that book is like 10x more graphic (and violent) than what's in those excerpts. One instance describes him sticking the tube of a terrarium into a semi-conscious woman's vagina and running a rat that he's been starving into it, allowing it to start eating her internally.

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Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
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Originally posted by Shakka You live up there. If you're that comfortable with it, I implore you to vote for the guy. Certainly not something I'd ever want in one of my elected officials.

Well if I lived in that shithole of a state I would vote for Webb. I certainly don't want a racist elected official and all macacas aside, Webb seems to have solid credentials from teh Reagan and Bush 41 administrations.

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Originally posted by occrider Well if I lived in that shithole of a state I would vote for Webb. I certainly don't want a racist elected official and all macacas aside, Webb seems to have solid credentials from teh Reagan and Bush 41 administrations.

I'd write in an independent. Maybe I'm more traditional, but I'm more than a little disturbed by all of this.

Edit: Riddle me this: If the tables were turned and it were George Allen that had written this stuff and Webb who had made the disparaging remarks, tell me the media would treat it the same way. No way in hell.

Last edited by Shakka on Oct-27-2006 at 19:11

Fiction does not equal reality....but reality can be worse than fiction....look at the Republican party and our dear President and his administration...like the war in Iraq. The stuff our soldiers have done in Iraq is REAL and just as bad as some of the things in these excerpts that are FICTION, where's the outrage on the right towards what they've done? Oh wait..torture is okay in their playbook. They'd rather look at the trivial stuff, like a guy going to an NFL/Playboy Party (Harold Ford Jr), and now Webb's fictional novels. There's a lot of adult novels (which is what he writes) and movies..with just as graphic imagery (look at stuff Oliver Stone has made over the years). Because someone makes a movie or writes a book that is graphic...that automatically makes them immoral or not worth a vote? Steven King's novels are graphic, is he a sicko in real life? A little strange maybe, but surely he's not a psycho killer or a child predator. Seems quite silly..the Republicans are really drawing at strings here, they are desperate..and it's showing.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Fwhere's the outrage on the right towards what they've done?

There has been plenty of outrage. We hear about it every day ad nauseum. It probably takes up 2/3 of the PDD forum.

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Originally posted by Shakka There has been plenty of outrage. We hear about it every day ad nauseum. It probably takes up 2/3 of the PDD forum.

Outrage on the Republic party and Bush administration. I know they've said before they cadone what these soldiers over the years have done in Iraq and at Guantamano Bay and those CIA secret prisons, but they don't seem to be againist it either. Their priorities are wrong, morality isn't just about these silly stuff like gay marriage, graphic novels or movies, or any type of sexuality. It's much larger than this, and many Democrats (and some Republicans) try to look at the bigger picture when it comes to morality, and not worry about all of this trivial crap we hear from the right all the time. There are way more important things that should be addressed, like the issues, not what someone writes or what events they go to..like parties. It's about what they DO or WILL DO, that is important. And Webb has some very good ideas, not more of the same old corrupt Republican/Bush policies of the last six years that Allen supports.

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Originally posted by Shakka Edit: Riddle me this: If the tables were turned and it were George Allen that had written this stuff and Webb who had made the disparaging remarks, tell me the media would treat it the same way. No way in hell.

How would the media treat it?

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