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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I thought you were an Atheist ? Or is that just some technical legal mumbo jumbo for 'demographic-ish' identification?

I am an atheist. But, on my passport, whether I like it or not, I'm identified by my family's religion. And yes, it's for demographic reasons, and it's rather pathetic.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Is Lebanon ruled by Christian or Muslim law? Turkeys populace is all muslim, but they are secular. Although the parties are muslim or christian parties that rule lebanon, do they follow relgious jusrisdiction or are they just labelled as relgioous parties?

If you were referring to the Lebanese constitution, then technically, you're right in the sense that it was modeled after the French third republic (which is obviously secular). However, religious courts and Christian and Muslim law are still prevalent in everyday matters, such as marriage (no civil marriages for instance), divorce, inheritance etc.

But I wasn't referring to that piece of paper that clearly holds no weight whatsoever in this country. For all intents and purposes, Lebanon is not secular. The constitution is constantly flaunted, and religion permeates everyday life, mainly because of the governmental power sharing formula that is set up along sectarian lines. You stick to your sect, you breathe your sect, and you live your sect. The religious authorities hold so much weight in the communities, that calling Lebanon secular, although technically correct if one bases his claim according to the constitution, is almost an oxymoron.

But I get your point. Either way, if Hizballah gains power, they won't be able to establish an Islamic Shia state if that's what you're referring to. Lebanon is based on a delicate sectarian formula that no one sect can dominate. We'll see what happens in the coming days.

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Originally posted by Epicurus I am an atheist. But, on my passport, whether I like it or not, I'm identified by my family's religion. And yes, it's for demographic reasons, and it's rather pathetic. If you were referring to the Lebanese constitution, then technically, you're right in the sense that it was modeled after the French third republic (which is obviously secular). However, religious courts and Christian and Muslim law are still prevalent in everyday matters, such as marriage (no civil marriages for instance), divorce, inheritance etc. But I wasn't referring to that piece of paper that clearly holds no weight whatsoever in this country. For all intents and purposes, Lebanon is not secular. The constitution is constantly flaunted, and religion permeates everyday life, mainly because of the governmental power sharing formula that is set up along sectarian lines. You stick to your sect, you breathe your sect, and you live your sect. The religious authorities hold so much weight in the communities, that calling Lebanon secular, although technically correct if one bases his claim according to the constitution, is almost an oxymoron. But I get your point. Either way, if Hizballah gains power, they won't be able to establish an Islamic Shia state if that's what you're referring to. Lebanon is based on a delicate sectarian formula that no one sect can dominate. We'll see what happens in the coming days.

Thanks for clairfying it. Do you think that civil strife will always occur in that country? Is this just a cyclical pattern becuase no one can really have complete power?

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer looks like Hezbullah has more support then ever,poor Israel once again their actions backfiring at them.

and your smiley face just loves the fact that poor people of Lebanon are going to die when this blows up into a civil war?? Oh as long as Israel gets a few rockets lobbed at it huh? this is going to suck big time...

Beirut tense after deadly attack - BBC News

Well it looks like everyone is on pins and needles in Lebanon today due to this incident. I agree that the government needs to stay in power to prevent fundamentalism. The simple issue is that Islam is a culture and religion that is total in society. Christianity was like that from Constantine to the Reformation by Luther. A "Reformation" is what is needed in Islam, but is it possible when they blame others for their failure to adapt.

Turkey is an excellent example of a "reformation" in Islam. Mustafa Kemal was able to see the fault of the unity of religion and state. That is why he dissolved the Ottoman Empire in 1922 and sent the sultan/caliph into exile. The Republic of Turkey was born. He westernized the country by Romanizing the language, expanding public education, banning Islamic clothing, recoginizing the equality of the sexes in all matters including voting, banning Islamic law and creating secular and penal law and courts, etc.

Laïcité, a French word meaning the advocation of secularism and abolishing religion from the state, became the backbone of the Turkish state and people. If Lebanon could find such a place that could respect the Muslium majority and Christian minority, it would be ideal.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Thanks for clairfying it. Do you think that civil strife will always occur in that country? Is this just a cyclical pattern becuase no one can really have complete power?

To be quite honest Cyrus, it's very hard to say. There are three major problems with Lebanon, as far as I can tell, and many smaller issues.

First of all, the sectarian system is terrible and needs to go. A truly secular democracy, and not the confessional system that we have in place now, is a first step in solving some of the problems with Lebanon. When power is divided along religious lines, it foments religious segregation and mistrust along religious lines. Never a good idea.

Second of all, Lebanese mentality tends to extremely feudal. We call them za'ims. Every religious community has its leading families that tend to dominate the communities in every facet of life. The Maronites have the Gemayyels, Franjiehs and Chamouns. The Sunnis have the Karamis and the Hariris. The Druze have the Jumblatts and Arslans. The shia used to have the As'ads and AbuKhails, although this is no longer the case, as Hizballah is obviously the major power broker in that sect (one positive development in the rise of Hizballah).

Finally, whether Lebanese want to admit it or not, the Palestinian question is of paramount importance to the stability of Lebanon. Lebanon will not see lasting peace until the Palestinian question is fully and finally resolved. Until then, foreign powers, whether they be Arab, Muslim or Israeli and their proxies in Lebanon will continue using Lebanese territory to settle their scores against one another, either because of genuine concern for Palestinians or because they find the latter a convenient (and powerful) pretext to justify their actions.

good thing Israel changed the face of the middle east by destroying Hezbollahs infrastructure init

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, well done israel! you certainly showed them!

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Originally posted by tathi good thing Israel changed the face of the middle east by destroying Hezbollahs infrastructure init

ive missed you mate

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