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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > globalisation and free trade - what's your take?
globalization and free trade - yay or nay?
This poll is closed.
Yes - I think it's better for everyone 10 47.62%
No - I think it's bad 11 52.38%
Total: 21 votes 100%
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BiG-_BoSS
Suspended User



Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mockba, Ru

quote:
Originally posted by venomX
Amazing contribution, I'm amazed by the depth of your argument!


Why is it necessary to be an asshole?

Old Post Dec-08-2006 22:50  Russia
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venomX
ISO salty whenches



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by BiG-_BoSS
Why is it necessary to be an asshole?


Because this is supposed to be a debate forum. If you don't have a contribution to make, don't post. The quality of the posts of some people coming here is surprisingly poor and it gets a tad annoying, that's why.


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Orbax
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Old Post Dec-08-2006 23:37  Dominican Republic
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I'm actually surprised that not more people are pro-globalisation here! An international forum, with plenty of intelligent people and all...

Old Post Dec-09-2006 15:48  Europe
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
The complaints about the current model of globalisation - which are well founded imho - arise not from free-trade but restrictions on free-trade. The US and other western nations are able to use their economic clout - through the IMF and other institutions - to enforce rapid economic liberalisation on poorer nations and then take advantage of the lowered trade barriers by flooding products, in areas that they have a comparative advantage, into the poorer nations. The poorer nations are unable to prosper, however, because the areas of production that they are most likely to have a comparative advantage in (usually agriculture, low-skill manufacturing etc.) are also the areas that economies like the US, the EU and Australia protect through the imposition of tariffs and domestic subsidies. This puts poorer nations at a comparative disadvantage (which wouldn't be the case if all trade barriers everywhere were lifted!) and hence the current level of acrimony against "free-trade".

In summary, free-trade is good, the current "free-trade" system is not.

If I could cite an example, one would only have to go as far as looking at the long, drawn out softwood lumber trade dispute between the States and Canada which have been going on for years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._lumber_dispute

A snipit:
quote:

The heart of the dispute is the claim that the Canadian lumber industry is unfairly subsidized by the federal and provincial governments. Specifically, most timber in Canada is owned by provincial governments. The price charged to harvest the timber (the "stumpage fee") is set administratively rather than through a competitive auction, as is often the practice in the United States. The United States claims that the provision of government timber at below market prices constitutes an unfair subsidy. Comparing the prices of different species of timber in Canada and the United States, it does appear that Canadian timber prices are significantly lower for comparable species of trees in the United States. Under U.S. trade remedy laws, foreign goods benefiting from subsidies can be subject to a countervailing duty tariff to offset the subsidy and bring the price of the product back up to market rates.


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Old Post Dec-09-2006 16:05  Canada
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

the theory of trade is pretty seems pretty reasonable, but it's practice is not without costs.


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Old Post Dec-13-2006 06:21  United States
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Sexy_Warden87
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Unknown.

U should really check out this link: http://www.devilsadvocate.dk/index.php/?p=30
It's a podcast discussing the effects of globalization, how to explain the success of the Nordic welfare states and how these compare to the US ect.

Quotes from the debate:
“It is correct that the wealth of the world is very unevenly distributed… the reason why it is unevenly distributed is that there is an uneven distribution of capitalism [..] The problem of the world today is too little globalization and too little capitalism.”


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Old Post Dec-13-2006 10:01  Denmark
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Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
I'm actually surprised that not more people are pro-globalisation here! An international forum, with plenty of intelligent people and all...

It's roughly 50-50, think a lot has to do with the fact that it's an alternative music site rather than some kind of dedicated political forum and a lot of the younger people tend to be going through the rebellious part of their lives. Things like globalisation, capitalism and so on don't tend to be popular amongst the younger set as theres plenty of bad press dealt out about it by fairly much everyone from green groups, unionists, socialists, religous sects to nationalists who tell them their identity, culture and country will be swept away along with vast tracts of the world by 'evil' corporations.
Course, in saying that they have their points but mostly it's the destabilisation of their own power bases which are under threat as well, people rarely rally too a cause just on it's merits alone, theres always a personal reason for it as well.

Old Post Dec-13-2006 12:19 
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

the day that all factors of production are able to move as quickly and unrestrained as capital, is a day i'll be for globalization. until then, i am against it because there is no parity.


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Old Post Dec-13-2006 16:46  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
It's roughly 50-50, think a lot has to do with the fact that it's an alternative music site rather than some kind of dedicated political forum and a lot of the younger people tend to be going through the rebellious part of their lives. Things like globalisation, capitalism and so on don't tend to be popular amongst the younger set as theres plenty of bad press dealt out about it by fairly much everyone from green groups, unionists, socialists, religous sects to nationalists who tell them their identity, culture and country will be swept away along with vast tracts of the world by 'evil' corporations.
Course, in saying that they have their points but mostly it's the destabilisation of their own power bases which are under threat as well, people rarely rally too a cause just on it's merits alone, theres always a personal reason for it as well.


Exactly, globalistion does change things and those threatened to it are of course afraid of it, however in the long run EVERYONE will win on globalisation. And my point was that most people here are open minded and liberal, meaning they should be pro-globalisation

quote:
Originally posted by Spacey Orange
the day that all factors of production are able to move as quickly and unrestrained as capital, is a day i'll be for globalization. until then, i am against it because there is no parity.


That is different... Could you elaborate?

Old Post Dec-13-2006 20:24  Europe
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killingjoke
tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2005
Location: hobart,australia

a very good topic

globalization is really a bad thing.

unemployment goes up in developed countries due to the attraction of high labor costs. i guess most of you know that taxes rises while the income of workers does not go up. blame it on the Baby boomers who are now retired, now being stakeholders, they controlled the destiny of the young generation such as us.

it is sad, that these baby boomers who are also our parents or grandparents are cunning foxes and do not want to see their future generation prosper.

the weird thing is that while they are escape with money, they cant escape death.

i think global firms have stepped on a big foot.

*copycats*

big firms play with china and india, serve the big firms right. it is all about getting quick rich for their retirement scheme. the hoarding of money and leaving us middle employees with just rice, playing the income taxes to the head.

no wonder everyone is becoming a hippie.

my advise, join a hippie community.

Old Post Dec-30-2006 09:04  Australia
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Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

No, thats just running away from the topic
What youre looking at is not so much the problem of current things being the way they are and not focusing on what proposed plans and problems for globalisation would entail- and why it brings about so much negative views from people.
Essentially to bring it into some kind of fair, equitable solution for everyone is to have uniform interest rate and tax freezes for all economies so both the poor and richer nations have their wages brought into line with an average and this is where people come into the equation of being the problem.

See, people in western countries consume around 25x the energy that someone in say, India or China use and they also have much, higher salaries for equivalent amount of labour.
Dont also forget, around 70% or so of the human population is basically living at a subsistance level off the land still which is a vastly different form of lifestyle people in developed countries have. The people in the developed countries do not want to ceede any of their lifestyle and energy consumption and the people in the developing countries want theirs to be the same as those on the other side of the fence.
Thats just the kicker.
There is not the sheer amount of energy sources in the world to sustain life on the planet at the level of which say, someone in northern america or europe is currently living at and, they arent going to give it up easily.
I dont have a solution to that, the world will literally have to turn 180degrees from its current course to initiate something like it.

What I can tell you though, is that running away or lying down and letting them run over you is a product of welfare states and developed countries which has its young people basically unwilling to fight for anything.
They take it in the guts, crawl away, shrivel up off the economic radar.
Which is why developed countries must take note of developing countries because there, you can't afford to take a hit and run away hiding from what did it to you is basically going to kill you. You will not have the social welfare net to educate your children or feed yourself and you know what that produces? Fighters and people hungry to keep their head above water no matter what they have to deal with.
Partly you could blame the baby boomers, more likely you should be paying attention to your own laziness and front up to reality, get some guts and take the bastards out at their own game and wrest back what theyre trying to take away.

So run.
I dont care for cowards on my side of the age group anyway, I won't be giving up my houses, car and income because I think its pointless to keep slugging on, theres no one to catch little me. No parents, no close relatives left and just me to pick myself up if I take a fall and gods help anyone thats going to get in the way or try and trip me up. Thats just the cold, hard reality of the current situation. You can run but you can't hide so you may as well fight to get somewhere.

Old Post Dec-30-2006 10:39 
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