quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc reread the chapter on genetic mutation

Eh, I don't have a book on it. Anyway I'm familiar with all that.

My question was asking why would a mutation that seemingly harms an organism survive.

Last edited by Sunsnail on Dec-11-2006 at 04:35

there are more holes in evolutionary theory than swiss cheese not necessarily this particular subject... i just wanted to make a bad joke i guess....

And in creationism's case, there is no cheese at all.

A more general thing to note is that evolution (mutation plus reproduction plus selection) does not necessarily work toward anything like "perfection." The modern human knee and back, for example, are "poorly made" from the viewpoint of stability, which is why so many problems crop up with them, but they were good enough to "work" (enable the survival of offspring), so they have stuck around to this day.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles And in creationism's case, there is no cheese at all.

+1


... Creationists spend so much time looking for holes in evolution - the a priori assumption being that if evolution is fatally flawed as a scientific theory, creationism is automatically accepted as the next best hypothesis. This simply isn't the case.

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Last edited by astroboy on Dec-11-2006 at 05:25

In the beginning, we were all fish, okay, swimming around in the water. And then one day a couple of fish had a retard baby. And the retard baby was different so it got to live. So retard fish goes on to make more retard babies, and then one day a retard baby fish crawled out of the ocean with its mutant fish hands, and it had butt sex with a squirrel or something, and made this retard-frog-squirrel and then that had a retard baby which was a monkey-fish-frog, and then this monkey-fish-frog had butt sex with that monkey and that monkey had a mutant retard baby that screwed another monkey and that made you. So there you go. You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel. Congratulations

Why the emphasis on "retards?"

And I don't think any animals reproduce through buttsex.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Eh, I don't have a book on it. Anyway I'm familiar with all that. My question was asking why would a mutation that seemingly harms an organism survive.

mutation can occur through radiation, chemical mutagens, viruses or simple copying errors. not all mutations are benefitial and not all are severe enough to filter the genes out of the gene pool. and thus you have some plants that bud better than others

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quote:

Originally posted by astroboy +1 ... Creationists spend so much time looking for holes in evolution - the a priori assumption being that if evolution is fatally flawed as a scientific theory, creationism is automatically accepted as the next best hypothesis. This imply isn't the case.

evolution is both a FACT and a THEORY. the fact is that every organism on this planet is evolving from a prior genetic state. the theory of evolution postulates that the mechanism for evolution is natural selection. whether or not we are evolving as a result of darwinian natural selection or some other undiscovered mechanism doesn't change the fact that we evolved from more primative beings and that our descendents are also the descendents of the great apes. religious people find objection to this idea because it conflicts with their egomanical view of the world.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I'm pretty familiar with it but I have this one question. In general, plants or animals that can produce offspring the best will pass their dna onto their children, which then become better at producing offspring as well. My question is why do some plants produce seeds that are utter shit at growing? I'm talking about 1 in 100 seeds will grow into a plant. Why does the plant waste so much energy producing seeds which will do nothing? Why hasnt evolution done anything there in terms of seed viability? (this post is a rant because I can't grow some plants for shit)

For the same reason why women (typically) ovulate every month. For the chance to make something happen.

Think about it, if the body could create babies on its own without the need of sperm to fertilize it, do you think women would still ovulate every month?

Thus the same logic applies to the plant, it "knows" that most wont become anything, thus it produces many in hopes that one will become a plant.

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quote:

Originally posted by Coup Vlad wins. Flawless victory.

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc mutation can occur through radiation, chemical mutagens, viruses or simple copying errors. not all mutations are benefitial and not all are severe enough to filter the genes out of the gene pool. and thus you have some plants that bud better than others

a mutation is any change of DNA/RNA, positive or negative